In Final Debate, Janet Chittock Votes for Higher Taxes on Joe the Plumber

WSJ ^ | 10/16/2008 | Douglas Belkin

[AT7Saluki]

Janet Chittock has two words for Joe the Plumber: “Tax him.”

“My gosh, $250,000 a year, of course I think his taxes should go up,” she said. “He can afford it.”

Joe the Plumber is the Toledo man who was held up as a litmus test during the third presidential debate tonight by both candidates.

Sen. McCain said if Joe has worked hard all his life to afford to buy a business that can bring him in that kind of money he deserves to keep as much of as he can. Sen. Obama said his taxes should go up to help alleviate the burden on people earning less – a position Joe would have found himself in a few years earlier.

Mrs. Chittock, 70, has been studying each candidate for weeks and has yet to reach a decision about for whom she will vote — though she is leaning toward Sen. McCain. Still, the question about what should happen to Joe the Plumber was an easy call for her.

The most Mrs. Chittock and her late husband ever earned together in one year was about $50,000. That a higher percentage of Joe’s wages should be taxed was as plain to her as the mushrooms on the pizza she was eating.

“You can only spend so much,” she said.

[According2RecentPollsAirIsGood]

*sigh*

I just looked it up, and yeah, Doc's right. Texas now has a tax on gross receipts. See here. Effing Rick Perry. Well, that's gonna suck.

And you are quite right, WM, just because a small business has a high income, it doesn't mean it has high profits. We just did a $1.3 million engineering job, but actually lost money on it. Rick of the Hair is still gonna tax that $1.3 million.

Another thing that people may not think of is that, even if Obama's tax is on net profits, raw income - expenses, if your business doesn't have a steady flow of income and expenses, you could get stuck in the highest tax bracket because of bad timing. My dad and I build chemical and refrigeration plants. For a $1 million job, we might get only three payments of $333,000 apiece at certain times. Of course, most of that money is going to go to equipment and labor expenses. But if we just happen to have more than $250,000 of that payment still in the bank by the end of the taxable year even if it's in the middle of a job, we're going to get taxed on that amount. Doesn't matter if we post a loss at the end of the actual project. With this increase, that'll be more likely in fact.

And of course, even if we did post $250k in profit, it would just be reinvested into the business to grow it. Well, it certainly wouldn't grow as much with this tax hike. Thus a few people won't get jobs they might otherwise have gotten from us. Ahh, unintended consequences.

And we're about as middle class as you can get; this "only tax the rich" mantra makes me apoplectic.

[adorno]

Janet Chittock Votes for Higher Taxes on Joe the Plumber

Janet, though she says she's leaning towards McCain, is doing the same simple-minded thinking that most democrats are known for.

She's thinking somebody bringing home $250,000 should be taxed higher. Simple enough.

But, she's not thinking about Joe the Plumber, whose $250,000 business would be taxed higher under Obama.

If Joe, in his small business, has an employee making $40,000, and that's all the Joe could afford, then Joe may have to lower his take-home pay and that of his employee's to compensate for the taxes that Obama would collect from the business. The employee would suffer the consequences of the Obama taxes, and thus, not only is Joe being punished, but so is the employee.

If taxes on Joes small business make it not worthwhile for Joe to stay in business, then the economy is hit even harder by not only the business closing, but by Joe and his employee going unemployed. And then, because of the higher taxes on Joes original small business, the government coffers will have to be tapped to offer unemployment benefits to Joe's former employee and the original extra taxes collected from Joe will have to be used as unemployment benefits for Joe's employee. Obama's higher taxes will then have served to make matters worse for the economy by not only destroying a business, but by also killing two jobs.

And then, there are the repercussion in the rest of the local economy which will suffer because Joe's business wont be doing business with them, Joe and his employee and their respective families will be unemployed and unable to make purchases in other local businesses and in turn, those businesses will be endangered from the consequences of Joe's business being taxed higher and possibly going out of business. Higher taxes create a domino effect on businesses of all kinds.

That's a serious and devastating attack on the economy, three times over. Then, if those kinds of events are set to go off millions of times throughout the economy via higher taxes, many millions of jobs are subtracted from the economy, millions of small businesses are destroyed, and there will be hundreds of billions of less in salaries from which to collect taxes. That would only create a depression.

Higher taxes are only counterproductive and serve only to punish productivity, and in the end, the entire economy.

It's not only Obama that endangers our economy; it's also the people that buy into the socialism being sold to them by Obama and democrats.

[Blacksheep]

When is someone in the MSM going to explain the reality of the S corp and way small business is really taxed. I run an S corporation with 11 employees. Every year my tax return looks huge> I laugh when I show it to someone to get a loan they always seem impressed. But S corp. profits are taxed as personal income.
I take a reasonable salary out of my business but I pay taxes on the "all the profit" of the company every year whether I have it handy or I take any out for myself and family. A few years ago I had to borrow money to pay my taxes even though my tax return told the government we had a great year. I have high inventory costs, slow receivables, always on time quarterly tax payments among other expenses. Most small businesses, when you say made $250,000 it is likely the owner took less than half of that number home to his family in salary and dividends.
I have added two new employees this year as well as made big capital expenditures that will result in a few of my contractors' and suppliers' employing a few dozen employees as well. I am paying well over 50% in state and Federal income taxes now. I anticipate cutting my Cap-ex by 75% next year (I buy nearly everything from US suppliers(no China) and occasionally from Canada).
Maybe a clear minded accountant or lawyer can simply explain the real deal with a small business making $250,000 a year. t seems clear neither Oh Bummer nor McCain understand exactly what $250,000 income to small business means. Raising my taxes will absolutely result in my company buying less capital equipment and supplies, in turn hurting my suppliers. It will also result in the hiring fewer if any new employees. So how can Obama's one time payout to the middle class really help anyone in the long run.

[bombthrower]

Keep taxing Joe and we’ll have fewer Joes. And the remaining Joes (masochists)will have to charge Janet more to cover the added taxes. Poor Janet.

[bombthrower]

Never. 38% DON’T pay taxes today and that is going north of 44%. Only about 10% of earners pay much and even if they all voted Conservative (which they don’t increasingly-it’s cultural, ie. pro abortion, pro gay, anti- rural voter), the Rats would still win. They will have 40% in their pocket from the start every election cycle.

[Hanna548]

Yes, it is net, Federal Income Tax is not assessed on gross income, it is assessed on net income, however Joe worked for, it looks like about 20 years to get to a place where he can consider buying the business. He worked HARD, 10-12 hours a day. If he is a journeyman he also spent 5 years going to school while working 10 hours a day, just like my son is doing now.

Now Joe probably is like the rest of us. His wage is allowing him to provide the necessities for his family with just a little left over.

In order to buy a business you have to have a considerable amount of money (capital)up front. So rather than SPEND the left over on fishing gear and a boat, or stadium tickets, or electronics, he has saved his money.

His life has been an investment in his future. If he buys that business and does one day make 250,000 a year, and gets his loan paid off, which is not going to happen for some time, he is looking at Obama dipping into HIS LONG AND HARD EARNED MONEY to GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO CHOSE NOT TO WORK AND SACRIFICE LIKE HE WAS WILLING TO DO.

People act like old Joe just walks into the door of a plumbing business one day after bumbing around on different jobs for a while and spending every weekend away fishing, and bamo, now he is earning 250,000 a year. I cannot believe the ignorance of the American people.

Obama is a Socialist! When people are put under that system the people like Joe say to heck with this. I am not going to spend 20 years working and saving in order to achieve the American Dream just to have it taken away from me. Joe is going to go to work Monday morning, work 8 hours and go home and on the weekend he is going to go fishing. How long do you think this system will hold up when everyone has the same attitude? I will answer that for you. NOT VERY LONG. You soon run out of all those “rich” people to tax, and the only rich people left are those in power. Now what. I will leave you to figure that out.

[PLMerite]

“...then the economy is hit even harder by not only the business closing, but by Joe and his employee going unemployed.”

I think Joe would be able to get another job pronto.

That’s something the liberals don’t understand. They might not care about “undercapitalized small businesses” but they will when the one that employs them goes under. The people with the drive to own/run a business will be able to find work. The people who are the lower rungs of the employment ladder might not.

[Fred]

Youtube - Joe Biden Insults Joe the Plumber and All Small Business Owners

[Fred]

Good grief, this lady has only averaged 14 dollars an hour. For Pete's sake, McDonald's pays 10 dollars and hour. What on earth has this lady been doing for the past 25 years.

[LakeLady]

I wonder if Janet has anything worth taxing!!

[NordP]

Works for me - more everything!