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Housing Pain Gauge: Nearly 1 in 6 Owners 'Under Water'
Wall Street Journal ^

Posted on 10/08/2008 5:38:00 AM PDT by Sub-Driver

Housing Pain Gauge: Nearly 1 in 6 Owners 'Under Water' More Defaults and Foreclosures Are Likely as Borrowers With Greater Debt Than Value in Their Homes Are Put in a Tight Spot By JAMES R. HAGERTY and RUTH SIMON

The relentless slide in home prices has left nearly one in six U.S. homeowners owing more on a mortgage than the home is worth, raising the possibility of a rise in defaults -- the very misfortune that touched off the credit crisis last year.

The result of homeowners being "under water" is more pressure on an economy that is already in a downturn. No longer having equity in their homes makes people feel less rich and thus less inclined to shop at the mall.

And having more homeowners under water is likely to mean more eventual foreclosures, because it is hard for borrowers in financial trouble to refinance or sell their homes and pay off their mortgage if their debt exceeds the home's value. A foreclosed home, in turn, tends to lower the value of other homes in its neighborhood.

About 75.5 million U.S. households own the homes they live in. After a housing slump that has pushed values down 30% in some areas, roughly 12 million households, or 16%, owe more than their homes are worth, according to Moody's Economy.com.

The comparable figures were roughly 4% under water in 2006 and 6% last year, says the firm's chief economist, Mark Zandi, who adds that "it is very possible that there will ultimately be more homeowners under water in this period than any time in our history."

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
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To: dfwgator
[that is treated as a gain to the borrower for tax purposes, and now they are stuck with a tax liability, and that you don't just get to walk away from. ]
 
Ding ding ding - winner!
 
And thus a house becomes a debtor's prison; substantiating the notion that the major difference between a castle and a prison is merely the direction the guns are pointing.

61 posted on 10/08/2008 7:18:40 AM PDT by LomanBill (A bird flies because the right wing opposes the left.)
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To: Alberta's Child

[If someone can afford their mortgage payments and they have no intention of leaving anytime soon, then the “book value” of their home is almost meaningless.]

Yep. I was taught that a house is a place for your family live and feel secure; not a cash cow.


62 posted on 10/08/2008 7:21:43 AM PDT by LomanBill (A bird flies because the right wing opposes the left.)
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To: Lord Jim

The simple reality is that demand for houses has dried up!
This causes a price drop that further decreases the demand.

Why did the demand dry up? We are now paying the price
for smaller families that started 25 years ago. Abortions
and birth control have now 25 years later caused a dip in the number of first time home buyers.

We now have a ‘population gap’ and it will get ugly as the
‘young’ figure out that they will have to pay for the ‘old’.


63 posted on 10/08/2008 7:22:35 AM PDT by blue_nova
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To: woollyone

“A glance at the coming future suggests that she will not see that loss recovered for maybe 40-50 years”

Ah, you lost me there. There is no historical foundation for saying it will take “40 or 50 years” years for the housing market to recover.

She hasn’t “lost $250K” unless she has to sell.
Maybe she ought to stay put. Even until she is 95.

She has a roof over her head and that will never be worth “zero” (like our 401K will soon be)

If she dumps her house and “walks away”, where is she going? A cave?

People are just are not thinking rationally.
As for me, I’m going to live in my house, or use it to raise revenue by renting it to someone else.


64 posted on 10/08/2008 7:24:33 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: dfwgator

agreed...though even the tax burden for the write-off is still a potential lowering to the net loss for those with resources to pay the tax.

In my neighbors case...

~$45k to the IRS
-vs-
~$300K loss(after loss of value in the principle on the note, plus the interest paid over 27 remaining years, plus the equity,) by remaining in an 50% undervalued investment.


65 posted on 10/08/2008 8:00:10 AM PDT by woollyone ("When the tide is low, even a shrimp has its own puddle." - Vance Havner)
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To: silverleaf

Unnecessary sarcasm ends the conversation.

have a nice day.


66 posted on 10/08/2008 8:06:07 AM PDT by woollyone ("When the tide is low, even a shrimp has its own puddle." - Vance Havner)
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To: dfwgator
Be careful here, my understanding is that when a bank forgives loan and take it off the book, that is treated as a gain to the borrower for tax purposes,

Congress provided relief for a year or 2 on this. It isn't permanent...

67 posted on 10/08/2008 8:15:15 AM PDT by EVO X
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To: Black Birch
I heard Michael Savage talking on this one night. He made a good point..Where the hell is everyone moving to? Americans think it is their right to own bigger and bigger homes and debt be damned. Fact is MOST people and this is proven by NRA(National Realtors Association) move why? Becuase they want a bigger house. They want the rec room, the pool the huge master suite. Good for you if you have the money, but not so good if you really can't afford it. This mortgage mess was caused by 3 types of home buyers, minority poor who shouldn’t gotten loans, amateur flippers who saw too many HGTV shows about making huge money in real estate and #3 the yuppie whores who think they needed 5000 square feet McMansion for a family of 4 and bought with zero in the bank and pay option ARMs. Well Almost all of type #1 and 2 are Forecloseville and #3 is about to go under.
68 posted on 10/08/2008 8:24:33 AM PDT by pburgh01
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To: woollyone

I’m still amazed that your 65 year old neighbor would take on such a high mortgage with a payoff of 30 years. Seems to me that, yes she lived beyond her means for a great many years or she chose to take on the risk that comes with debt. Either way, her personal choice was a poor one and now the piper needs a payin.

Yes, I feel sympathy for the individuals, however we shouldn’t bundle all of the individuals together and bail them out at the Federal government feeding trough.


69 posted on 10/08/2008 8:29:08 AM PDT by CSM ("Conservobabes are hot. Libitches are not." - stolen from rightinthemiddle)
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To: pburgh01
Where the hell is everyone moving to?

Heck if I know. Back to the trailer park?

70 posted on 10/08/2008 8:39:46 AM PDT by EVO X
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To: LomanBill

Of course not.

There would be rules, you know. Just because something can go down a slippery slope (as can everything known to man) doesn’t mean it will.

There would be situations where restructuring would be helpful to the larger economy and where it wouldn’t be. This isn’t a reward to the individual per se.

It would be very simple to limit such a plan to home purchases (i.e., exclude refi’s) within a certain period of time (last five years, say) and where a certain downpayment (such as 10-20%) was put down by the home buyer.

If you’re in that category, my FRiend, your downpayment, however many tens of thousands of dollars it was, is GONE and is NOT coming back in a very very long time, if ever.

The loss of that downpayment is 100% caused by the policies of the U.S. Government through the RATS who flooded the market with toxic paper, insured it on our dime, fed the greed that is inherent in human nature, and now want to use our money to bailout deadbeats instead of giving a break to those who are contributors, not takers, in our economy.


71 posted on 10/08/2008 8:55:11 AM PDT by fightinJAG (Fly the flag!)
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To: fightinJAG

>>Of course not.

If figured as much. Just highlighting the gray areas for the peanut gallery.

>>There would be rules, you know.

Yah, but that’s sorta the whole idea of a Republic - being a system of government, characterized by the Rule of Law; and look where we are now.

Eternal Vigilance?

=Bill


72 posted on 10/08/2008 10:25:06 AM PDT by LomanBill (A bird flies because the right wing opposes the left.)
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To: theBuckwheat
This is “mark to market” run amok. If the homeowner is servicing the loan and is wants to keep paying on it, then we must change the rules to allow the mortgage-holder to refrain from foreclosure

If they are paying on their loans foreclosure wouldn't enter it.....duh

73 posted on 10/08/2008 10:46:32 AM PDT by estrogen (No Obama please Lord)
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To: silverleaf
That is not true. When we bought our house for 360K we put 40K down on it. We financed the rest. The house is worth around 270 now so we are underwater through no fault of our own. Not everyone went nuts and high on the hog. We weren't high risk borrowers either. But we got hammered. How is that irresponsible? More accurate to say we were really unlucky. I am sure we aren't the only ones either. At least we can make the mortgage, but with the cost of everything having gone through the roof... ( the milk I have to buy for my Allergic daughter is 7.00$ a gallon now!!! WTH?), yea things are tight in my household now. We can not sell to move to a less expensive home, and we can not refinance as the home value dropped through the floor. Its not at all an easy situation to be in. We had Equity in this property when we moved here!
74 posted on 10/08/2008 10:55:54 AM PDT by Danae (Read my Lipstick: I AM Sarah Palin)
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To: what's up
I read that during the Depression, 50% of homes were in foreclosure.

Back then, some mortgages were written so that missing one (or maybe a few, but I think it was only one) payment caused you to lose the house, with no repayment of the equity in it. Contracts like this are no longer legal.

This is how the sales of the Clinton's Whitewater real estate thing worked. HRC said that it gave an opportunity to buy a vacation property to those who might not otherwise have qualified. I thought that the media would expose this, but it was just another oh-well.

75 posted on 10/08/2008 11:10:06 AM PDT by Freee-dame
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To: Freee-dame
Back then, some mortgages were written

Must have been a LOT of them written this way for foreclosures to go up to 50%. Or maybe there were other factors involved.

Thanks for the info...wasn't aware of it.

76 posted on 10/08/2008 11:14:24 AM PDT by what's up
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To: Yo-Yo
That's my layman's understanding of the situation.

You explained things more clearly than I have heard anywhere. McCain should hire you.

77 posted on 10/08/2008 11:21:29 AM PDT by Freee-dame
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To: woollyone

“And at the time when she bought, nobody was out there telling average poeple like her that the ecomony was gonna bust, that the RE market was gonna tank and that her house was gonna be worth half the value in three short years.”

Actually, there were lots of us saying precisely that the RE market was in a big bubble, and an eventual economic downturn of some sort was entirely predictable. Let’s not forget, the RE bubble collapse was the trigger for the current mess, not caused by it. Quite a few people called RE the bubble that it was, but nobody wanted to listen.


78 posted on 10/08/2008 11:27:37 AM PDT by -YYZ- (Strong like bull, smart like ox.)
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To: what's up
(I think right now we have about 4% actually in foreclosure.)

And though I can't remember the source...
I thought the notable figure is (somewhat suprisingly)...
four percent of subprimes are in foreclosure...
and four percent of the regular mortgages are in foreclosure.

(I still think surely the rate for sub-primes must be higher
the for standard mortgages)
79 posted on 10/08/2008 11:30:50 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Sub-Driver

Like most new car buyers, I’m “underwater” in my car loan, and have been almost since the time I pulled out of the car lot. Does this mean I should get federal relief??


80 posted on 10/08/2008 11:31:03 AM PDT by keepitreal ("I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message. . . until I don't.")
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