Posted on 09/29/2008 5:27:55 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
War game argues that USAF fleet could be outmatched by Chinese
By Stephen Trimble
Rand's 90-slide briefing presented in August argues that the US Air Force's fifth-generation fighter fleet could be outmatched by hordes of lesser-skilled Chinese Sukhoi Su-27 pilots in a 2020 battle over the Taiwan Straits. In the Rand war game, China launches an air attack on skies above Taiwan. Using advantages of proximity and sheer numbers, the assault force consists of 72 Su-27 Flankers, 24 in each of three regiments. Operating from Andersen AFB, Guam, the USAF can muster only six Lockheed F-22s in the Taiwan Straits at any time.
As the engagement starts, Chinese Flankers outnumber F-22s by 72 to six. The F-22s are also heavily outgunned in the battle. Three Su-27 regiments carry a total of 912 air-to-air missiles, compared with 48 by six F-22s.
In the end, the simulation optimistically assumes no F-22s are shot down in dogfights, but enough Su-27s break through to wipe out the USAF's tankers. Since the F-22s lack the range to return to a friendly base, they are lost anyway.
The only nations which can afford the F-22 Raptor in meaningful numbers are Japan and Saudi Arabia(who have gone in for the Eurofighter).The Aussies don’t have the budget and Israel would need US mil-aid.
“1. Ten guys with clubs will win out over one man with nine bullets.”
Put another way, quantity has a quality all of its own. That said, it’s a little difficult to motivate ten guys when they know that only one of them will walk away from the fight...who goes first?
What is to stop China or Russia/Iran if our economy tanks?
their economy tanking?
What happened to my AWACS bandit calls and my tanker retrograde procedures? I guess the assumption is that I’m sitting up in my air refueling orbit fat, dumb, and happy with no awareness of my surroundings.
how about bombing all their airport hangers so they have nowhere to go back to?
Russia, China flex muscles in joint war games
August 17, 2007
CHEBARKUL, Russia (Reuters) - Russia and China staged their biggest joint exercises on Friday but denied this show of military prowess could lead to the formation of a counterweight to NATO.
"Today's exercises are another step towards strengthening the relations between our countries, a step towards strengthening international peace and security, and first and foremost, the security of our peoples," Putin said.
Fighter jets swooped overhead, commandos jumped from helicopters on to rooftops and the boom of artillery shells shook the firing range in Russia's Ural mountains as two of the largest armies in the world were put through their paces.
The exercises take place against a backdrop of mounting rivalry between the West, and Russia and China for influence over Central Asia, a strategic region that has huge oil, gas and mineral resources.
Russia's growing assertiveness is also causing jitters in the West. Putin announced at the firing range that Russia was resuming Soviet-era sorties by its strategic bomber aircraft near NATO airspace.
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-29030120070817?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
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War Games: Russia, China Grow Alliance
September 23, 2005
In foreign policy it’s critical to “know thine enemy.” So American policymakers should be aware that Russia and China are inching closer to identifying a common enemy — the United States.
The two would-be superpowers held unprecedented joint military exercises Aug. 18-25. Soothingly named “Peace Mission 2005,” the drills took place on the Shandong peninsula on the Yellow Sea, and included nearly 10,000 troops. Russian long-range bombers, the army, navy, air force, marine, airborne and logistics units from both countries were also involved.
Moscow and Beijing claim the maneuvers were aimed at combating terrorism, extremism and separatism (the last a veiled reference to Taiwan), but it’s clear they were an attempt to counter-balance American military might.
Joint war games are a logical outcome of the Sino-Russian Friendship and Cooperation Treaty signed in 2001, and reflect the shared worldview and growing economic ties between the two Eastern Hemisphere giants. As the Pravda.ru Web site announced, “the reconciliation between China and Russia has been driven in part by mutual unease at U.S. power and a fear of Islamic extremism in Central Asia.”
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed092605a.cfm
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From National Public Radio (NPR):
August 29, 2006
"Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has been visiting countries such as China, Iran and Russia as part of an effort to build a 'strategic alliance' of interests not beholden to the United States. He considers the United States his arch enemy.":
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5729764
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From the Russian News and Information Agency:
July 27, 2006
"'I am determined to expand relations with Russia,' Chavez, known as an outspoken critic of what he calls the United States' unilateralism, told the Russian leader, adding that his determination stemmed from their shared vision of the global order.":
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060727/51913498.html
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From Investors Business Daily:
September 8, 2008
"On Monday, Russia accepted Chavez's invitation for a first-ever joint naval exercise with Venezuela."
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305766737761086
____________________________________________________________ From The Associated Press:
Russian navy ships head to maneuvers in Venezuela
September 22, 2008
MOSCOW - A Russian navy squadron set off for Venezuela Monday, an official said, in a deployment of Russian military power to the Western Hemisphere unprecedented since the Cold War.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080922/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_venezuela
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Venezuela Set to Develop Nuclear Power With Russia
September 29, 2008
CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that Russia will help Venezuela develop nuclear energy — a move likely to raise U.S. concerns over increasingly close cooperation between Caracas and Moscow.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,429441,00.html
Indeed, as put in my #5.
Where do they factor in the thousands of UAVs that we’ll have by then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-9_Reaper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_Polecat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-45
Oh heck, why not build a million of them?
I call BS. The degree to which the F-22 surpasses everything in history is absolutely mind-blowing.
Bear in mind that the F-16 is untouched by the rest of the world. China has nothing that can compete on anything resembling an even footing with the F-16.
Now consider the dogfights between some of our very best pilots in F-16s against F-22s. A single F-22 takes down multiple F-16s without even being seen. In several cases, not only did the F-16s not see the F-22, not only did the F-16 not even get to register the radar lock in time to even attempt escape, but even after the “kill” the F-16 couldn’t see the F-22 until the F-22 flew over the top of the F-16 allowing the F-16 pilot to PHYSICALLY see him.
With a pair of F-22s, 10+ F-16s were toast. If memory serves me, a team of 3 F-22s is good for something like 18 F-16s without taking a sweat, or even having a single F-16 lock on.
The issue of speed or maneuverability or armament doesn’t even come into play, because the next most advanced fighter on the planet might as well be completely blind (the F-22 happens to do all the aforementioned things better, but it’s so unnecessary as to almost seem boring).
Oh and we haven’t even gotten into how much better the F-22 integrates with literally every support system we can think to link to it (JSTARS, AWACS, another half-dozen I’ve never heard of, and probably another couple none of us knows exists yet). So while being invisible, the pilot can see more sooner. Oh and it can network with other F-22s to form an ad-hoc AWACS system...so everyone on the team sees a combination of the best views.
This isn’t a matter of who wins, or even how big of a loss we would take while winning. The most legitimate question would be if even a single pilot would be in any real danger of being shot at, much less hit.
Another title-does-not-match article!
The article says that an all out aerial attack by china with 72 fighters could be repelled with only 6 F22s?
That sounds like what Pappy Boyington would call a big win!
Perhaps they were engaging the rest of the Chinese air force, leaving the Sukhois for the F-22s. It's a war game, but it does highlight the growing Chinese air force and thus our growing need for more F-22s. Is the F-35 an urban myth or will it be operational any time soon?
It would be interesting to have swarms of Predators with lots of AA missiles "feeding" the F-22's target designators.
Usual ploy to get funds from Congress. In the sixties it was Biologicals ... “said” Russia was ahead. Result: AIDS, SARS, nano monsters and new hosts of immune related diseases and other stealth viruses “Purging Us Softly” unlike Moscow. Plus Genetic Engineering (Eugenics) is good for Medicine. Read “Emerging Viruses” by Leonard Horowitz.
More like six+ decades.
“And we have no other assets in the battlespace? Like a carrier, for example?”
Must be after 8 years of an Obambi presidency.
Hardly
Mike
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