Replies

I agree with you about 99% of the time, Ann, but now I have to sorrowfully note that there are indeed Catholics who support Obama, AND they are still "real" Catholics.

Mind you, I think they're abysmally wrong in supporting Obama, and I disagree strongly with their arguments. But they don't automatically lose their identity as Catholics.

If I may quote something I wrote on a different thread:

This sounds to me like the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy: "Suppose I assert that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge. You counter this by pointing out that your friend Angus MacPherson of Aberdeen likes sugar with his porridge. I then say "Ah, yes, but no TRUE Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

OK, so no true prolife Catholics would be for Obama. But that does not advance us one inch in explaining the (to me, sorrowful) phenomenon I have in into in the past week: namely, a number of my (fellow Catholic) friends from the prolife movement whom I have known for more than 20 years, completely anti-abortion (and have paid their dues in work and sacrifice for it over the years) but are so anti-McCain that they are either going to sit out the election, or --- "if necessary to stop McCain" --- will vote for Obama?

My hand to God, this is truth, I know these people.

I think they're wrong, wrong, wrong, but here's their arguments:

They believe McCain is not truly pro-life. He is in favor of embryonic stem cell research, and he's been distancing himself from prolife movement people and religious conservatives for years.
They believe he picked up on Palin just so he could use her.
They believe he would not do anything substantive to help pro-life, and could do endless harm with other policies.
In addition to all that, they think he's a dangerous man because of the volatile world situation and his equally volatile temper: they think he's at risk of doing something erratic and dangerous in time of war.
They know Obama is a strong supporter of abortion, BUT they think he is more likely to to do provide material support (e.g. healthcare plan, subsidizing adoptions, whatevsr) for young and poor women, thus preventing abortions without having to illegalize them.
Bottom line, they think Obama will actually reduce the number of abortions, whereas McCain would do nothing on that score, plus McCain being far worse (in their view) than Obama on war/peace issues.

I am not defending this line of argument. Far from it. I am just laying it out so you can see that there are Catholic prolifers --- longtime, active, abortion-hating baby-loving prolifers ---who are for Obama.

For more elaboration, see Douglas Kmiec.

And --- I add this in a friendly manner --- don't bother arguing with me. I'm arguing with them.

Well....the BISHOPS have said a Catholic should NOT support people that PUSH ABORTION.....and Obama has PUSHED ABORTION by his VOTES.

Doug Kiemic is VERY wrong!

McCain has a 100% pro-life record.

I am also Catholic. And everything that comes from the Pope should tell these Catholics they are wrong. One of the top stories on here was Father Nelhaus I believe that’s his name said even the economy does not come before saving children from abortion. We have 50 million children dead and still counting. That is so horrible and yet we have Catholics who will set aside their passion for pro-life for what? President Obama? Obama is the MOST liberal pro-choice candidate ever and for them to be pro-life Catholics and support him is co-operating with evil. They need some counseling with a good pro-life priest or read encyclicals of Pope John Paul 2 or now Pope Benedict. Without proper counseling even Christians can make bad decisions. Obama is wrong on a lot of issues but Abortion is evil and there have been so many children lost to this country,where is the sorrow? Isaiah 5-20 Woe to those that call evil good and good evil. Obama is too pro-choice in all instances and he doesn’t believe it to be evil. From the Saddlebrook debate I don’t think he really understands evil or where it comes from. Black liberation theology is more about blacks than Jesus,that was what Obama’s church for 20 years was all about. I believe there was also a story where Rev. Wright was on the board of one of the city hospitals where there were many black children aborted. Even Martin Luther King’s niece speaks of the evil of abortion and the 14 million dead black children,she understands it because she experienced it. If our pro-life brothers and sisters can’t see where McCain is better than Obama something is not right. I will pray for them. Nora

Then they are self delusional. They, if they are true believers, are putting their immortal souls at risk.

The only way abortions will be reduced is through the courts. The courts have to strike down the bastardized legal argument of Roe vs. Wade. There will be at least two and possibly more appointments to the SCOTUS in the next four years. Barry will undoubtedly fill those vacancies with pro-abort activist judges.

You should simply look them in the eye and tell them that you will pray for their soul.

I am not defending this line of argument. Far from it. I am just laying it out so you can see that there are Catholic prolifers --- longtime, active, abortion-hating baby-loving prolifers ---who are for Obama.

I know some folks like this. This election has brought out the real lunatic fringe element in some people--that sick, Pat Buchananesque desire to destroy the world rather than settle for an imperfect candidate like McCain.

To be honest, I would have been in that boat had the GOP nominated Rudy or Romney. I would have sat things out and generally stayed out of presidential politics all together for the next four years.

But McCain has a major pro-life track record that is hard to deny. Folks who do deny it are simply delusional and perhaps not the pro-lifers they think they are, or at least putting something else (pride?) before the cause.

In all honesty, I have heard people slamming Fr. Pavone of all people because he supports McCain. When stuff like that happens, I have to assume these attacks are rooted in the diabolical somewhere.