Born in the U.S.A.? (Obama!)

Times Herald ^ | 08/25/2008 | KEITH PHUCAS

[neverdem]

PHILADELPHIA - A Lafayette Hill attorney filed a lawsuit in federal court Thursday challenging Sen. Barack Obama's claim to United States citizenship. The action seeks to remove the Democratic candidate from the November ballot.

To be eligible to serve as U.S. president, a person must be born in this country. According to Obama's birth certificate, which his campaign posted on its Internet site in June to quell rumors that he is foreign born, the Illinois senator was born in Hawaii on Aug. 6, 1961. On Thursday, Philip Berg filed a temporary restraining order in federal court to bar Obama from running for president, claiming the Democratic candidate was actually born in Africa.

"We really don't believe he was born in Hawaii," Berg said. "We think he was born in Kenya."

The presidential candidate's father, Barack Obama Sr., was born and raised in a small village in Kenya, according to Obama's campaign Web site.

Berg's suit claims the senator's grandmother, brother and sister, who live in Kenya, believe they were present during Obama's birth in the African country.

Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, grew up in Kansas, and his parents met at the University of Hawaii when Dunham was a student there, according to the Obama campaign. Eventually, Obama's father returned to Kenya, and his son grew up in Hawaii with his mother and for a few years in Indonesia after Dunham married an Indonesian man, Lolo Soetoro. Also, Obama lived with his maternal grandparents in Hawaii.

"If he was born in Hawaii, and he was adopted in Indonesia by Lolo Soetoro, (Obama) would lose his citizenship," Berg said.

The Obama campaign has a special section on its Web site, "Fight the Smears," that debunks the birth certificate story and other reports that have circulated about him during the campaign.

"It's part of a smear campaign," said an Obama campaign volunteer who identified herself as Rachel. "There are just so many lies out there."

The lawsuit claims three "independent" document forensic experts performed extensive tests on the digitally-scanned image of Obama's "Certificate of Live Birth" posted on the campaign's site and found the document to be "a forgery."

Jerome Corsi, author of the book, "The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality," has also deemed the birth certificate phony, according to The Annenberg Political Fact Check, www.FactCheck.org.

The Annenberg Political Fact Check, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania, aims to expose deception and confusion in U.S. politics.

Recently, FactCheck.org staffers "touched, examined and photographed" the original birth certificate kept at the Obama campaign headquarters in Chicago and concluded the document is genuine.

"The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.," FactCheck.org staffers concluded.

Sean Smith, Obama's Pennsylvania communications director, was contacted Friday about the suit but declined comment.

The civil suit filed by Berg will be reviewed by the U.S. Federal Election Commission, according to Patty Hartman, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.

Keith Phucas can be reached at kphucas@timesherald.com or 610-272-2500, ext. 211.

[Weya]

“Doesn’t matter, “agencies” don’t get to define what the Constitution means, nor to define terms contained in it.”

Yes, but they get to make rules. Again, if you don’t follow the rules, you don’t get to play.

Let’s throw an example, at least as silly as the ones you make below.

When I was on Active Duty, LOTS of forms asked for your Social Security number. Providing it was COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY. However, if you failed to provide it, you didn’t get whatever it was the form was supposed to get you.

When I got my SS number back in 1972, the card specifically stated “This unmber not to be used for ID purposes.” The cards don’t say that now. They changed the rules.

“The reason is obvious. As one example, they could define “arms” to only mean “upper limbs” and nullify the Second Amendment. “

Cool, I’d like to see that change made. I’ve been hoping to see politicians hanging from lamposts my whole life.

“Or define that talking within 1 mile of a government facility is not “speech”. ( of course the opposite has occurred, and “dancing naked” and other “forms of expression” has been defined as “speech”.) “

Sadly the framers weren’t wise enough to actually SEE into the future. I think it’s convenient that the 10th takes care of anything like you say above. Unfortunately, no one on the left looks at the 10th, and thinks the Bill of Rights is a list of the rights we have.

“Other than as modified by the 14th amendment, the term “natural born citizen” must be read to mean what it meant at the time the Constitution was adopted. (Although the 14th amendment concept was pretty much incorporated, for white people at least, in the founding era understanding, it just wasn’t limited to that)”

Agreed. Too bad common sense never prevails.

[raygun]

I don't know about that. Can you can cite a source for that assertation?

According to Aliens and Nationality - 8 USC Section 1401:

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date;

Relevent ammendments to section 1401 of the code:

1986 - Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 99-653 substituted "five years, at least two" for "ten years, at least five".

Clearly, based on the ammendment, it is evident that citizenship in accordance to 8 USC Sec. 1401(g) was not confered if the parent was a minor prior to the ammendment. However, since the ammendment has been in force, citizenship is confered to babies birthed by a child at least 16 yoa.

[Citizen Blade]

But that is not the case with Barry. He was clearly old enough to remember being Indonesian, and seems to identify with being African, more than being American. Not someone I want as the Commander in Chief. Heck not someone I want as a fuel handler on an air base in the interior of Alaska.

These are all political, rather than Constituional, issues. Obama meets the Constitutional requirements for being President, but that's just the first step. In my opinion, he is unqualified in every other way to be President.

[Citizen Blade]

right the US does but indonesia does not. so to be a citizen of indonesia you MUST give up your US citizenship which makes barry inelligible. Kenya is the same way (for the record)

I have no idea what Indonesian or Kenyans law says on this issue. But if Obama had renounced his American citizenship, there would be a record of that. No one has produced any evidence of this.

[null and void]

The 1795 law does confer citizenship at birth, yet it specifically removes natural born from the definition.

Why?

I think they intent was that to be a natural born American, you had to actually be born in America.

No, I don't think that is fair, but they apparently considered that a person born in a foreign land would have a non-eradicable soft spot in their heart for that foreign land, and that could affect their ability to do what needed to be done with the US' sole best interests in mind.

As for the 1795 law (and all subsequent laws) - most legal scholars would agree, and I would venture a substantial wager that SCOTUS would agree as well - if and when the rights of citizenship are conferred at birth - it meets the definition of natural born.

I would never put money on what a court would do. No man's life liberty or property are safe as long as court is in session.

And from the depths of my twisted mind: [etc.]

That's what we were taught, a class of nothing but Brats, on a military base, in a school run and owned lock, stock, and barrel by the Marine Corps.

I resented it then, I resent it now. (Although it doesn't affect me as I was born in these 48 United States)

As to zerObama?

He'd probably mention the McCaskill bill, and remind the chillins that he tried to get it broadened to to include any descendant of US military personnel included*, and say how sad he was that the bill failed, and that he really wished that the law allowed McCain to run, and if he should be elected president, he'll make it his very first priority to make sure any descendant of any active duty military person could be president some day...

(*pay no attention to the fact that this would make him eligible through his grandpa Stanley Dunham, regardless of being born in Kenya, and cover his butt)

[null and void]

“My Friends, the congress and liberal media put me through quite a process concerning the fact that I was born at a Naval Base in the Panama Canal Zone. I was born while my father, who went on to become a 4-star Admiral was stationed overseas. Like his father before him, my Grandfather, also a 4-star admiral served overseas with pride, yet the Democrats of this country dared to say I was not American. Make no mention of the fact..(vietnam)...and So, my FRiends I am not about to let this question in a matter as important as the Presidency, where 350 million lives are at stake linger any further.
“Senator Obama: Who IS Barry Soetoro??”...6 words and it’s his.

Hip Hip Hooray!!!! The nettle grasped firmly does not sting.

Only problem with the speech?

John McCain was NOT born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station in the Panama Canal Zone

He was born in Colón, PANAMA. Not The Canal Zone, Panama.

Colón is Panamanian, it is now and always has been Panamanian, as long has there has been a Panama. It has never been a US territory.

[null and void]

in MY simplified definition “Natural born citizen” means: offspring of two people born in the U.S. (don’t make me write about it’s possessions and military installations world-wide, your smarter than you’re making out to be).

That's called jus sanguinis It's the same rule England used to press American sons into service in the British navy. That is why I believe our founding Fathers rejected it. The US government does not have absolute rights to the firstborn of every American citizen.

We are citizens not subjects!

Sure, can you define American? So keeping with the spirit of YOUR posts, we can safely assume that Canadians, Mexicans, Columbians, Somoans, Brazilians, and a whole host of other “-ians”, can become President?

Nope, none of those country names include the word American. Can we step back from Hyperbole-land? That is neither what I said, nor what I meant, and you know it.

Besides, let’s see YOU define the word “IS” without using the word “IS”.

The third person, singular, present indicative of 'to be'

Define American blood. (We’ll give you a pass on “American” vs “Citizen of the U.S.” for this one.)

Any citizen of the United States has American blood flowing their veins.

Not every citizen can be president.

but we would simply define “natural born citizen” as written in the Constitution.

If only it actually was defined in the Constitution, we wouldn't be agonizing over it right now, would we?

Find one that wants to be a politician. Well, except me of course, but I fear the power might corrupt me.

*sigh* Me too. Besides, I could never survive the vetting process...

I used to be an opponent of term limits. I defended it loudly with “aren’t YOU smart enough to vote a bad politician out of office”...it was usually met with murmuring and grumbling. Twenty years later, I’ve change my opinion about term limits, and realized the murmuring and grumbling was them saying “no” (obviously). For example, look at ol’ Chappaquidick Ted. In public service his whole life, and deigns to call himself “leader”.

Yeah.

[null and void]

Obama meets the Constitutional requirements for being President,

ASSUMING he was actually born in Hawaii, he does.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Sorry I wasn’t there for you last night at least for moral support. You did an excellent job as always though.

It never ceases to astonish me that one can produce McCain’s CoLB stating where he was born and a map of Colón, Republic of Panama, showing the location of Colón Hospital, and still get the argument that he was born in Coco Solo (even though there was no hospital in existence there at the time), and the state of our minds questioned.

At that point, I don’t know whether to laugh or do some serious arse stomping. So it is a good thing I turned in early. You have a heck of a lot more patience and grace than I could ever hope to have.

[JerseyDvl]

Hello! I am sorry but my eyes are really fading and I will have to ask that all future replies be submitted through snail mail. In additiion, those will have to be audio recordings.
Thanks for agreeing with me though! I knew wiki coudn’t be incorrect as right-wing as they are.

:)

[null and void]

It never ceases to astonish me that one can produce McCain’s CoLB stating where he was born and a map of Colón, Republic of Panama, showing the location of Colón Hospital, and still get the argument that he was born in Coco Solo (even though there was no hospital in existence there at the time), and the state of our minds questioned.

I have some empathy for them.

First off, setting aside his liberal leaning politics, if anyone should be constitutionally qualified for the Office, McCain is the one. He has a flawless multigenerational pedigree from a family that has put loyal service to the country above even life itself.

He himself has quite literally taken a bullet (well, OK, a missile) for this country. He withstood years of torture better than 9999 out of ten thousand of us could have.

He has served this country all his life.

He simply has to be qualified to the highest office in the land.

The plain truth, that he may not be qualified must be wrong! Therefore anything that would clearly make him unqualified must be wrong as well. Therefore anyone who demonstrates something that militates against his qualifications must be wrong, or worse.

Of course they react!

My God, man, look at the alternatives!

As liberal as McCain is, as 'bipartisan', and as much as he 'reaches across the aisle', and how hard he tries to be a 'maverick', as willing as he is to be suspend free speech right before an election (and soooo much more), he is, at his absolute worst nowhere near as bad for this country as zerObama or the Hildabeast are at their absolute best.

And still, depending on what 'natural born citizen' really means, in the eyes of the law he may not measure up.

[null and void]

FReepmail me your mailing address.

MP-3 or cassette?

[JerseyDvl]

Uhhh, well I live in indonesia right now but sm coming back to the states soon. I plan on living in Washington DC but must first stop by by typical grandmother’s house to pick up ahh....eee...wellllll, she haaaad to give me a recipe!
A very special recipe that she can’t mail because obviously I can’t let her leave the housen. until Nove. 5th....uh, well, ya know, that day....uhhh shhhheeeee is getting an operation....uh-huh. Yeah, and uhhh, we will be taking her out then.
N&V....can no longer be baited into our circular debate.
We agree to disagree. Godspeed.

[Antonello]

To be completely precise, the hospital on the Coco Solo Naval Station wouldn't be built until McCain was 6 years old.

To be completely precise, the hospital he was born at is shown on the pretty little map, right at the top of the peninsula that has Colón at it's tip. In Colón, Panama.

To be completely precise, his birth certificate says he was born in Panama, not that he was born in The Canal Zone.

Unfortunately those are the facts, and facts are stubborn things.

The Coco Solo Hospital was built in 1941 - 5 years after McCain's birth. Before that the base had a smaller field hospital under the command of Captain W. L. Irvine. It is reported that Capt. Irvine's signature is on the private unofficial birth certificate issued by the hospital, but that document has not been publicly released so I cannot verify that.

What I can offer is a link to a PDF of the August 31, 1936 edition of the Panama American newspaper, which includes a birth announcement that reads:

---

Lt. and Mrs. J. S. McCain, Jr, Parents of Son

Lt. and Mrs. John S. McCain, Jr., of the Submarine Base, are the parents of a son born Saturday afternoon at the submarine Base Hospital.

---

Of course, it's always possible that the newspaper screwed up and forgot the hospital wouldn't be built for another five years, I suppose. But more likely they were referring to the small field hospital that served the base before the precious one that captured your attention.

[null and void]

Hmmmmmm, Official document, or newspaper clipping, and a rumor of an unofficial birth certificate.

Which to beleive?

Maybe we can ask both candidates to prove where they were born?

If you are correct it's just possible that McCain can actually prove he is eligible, and zerObama can't.

Odd that McCain would release a BC that says he isn't eligible if he has one that says he his.

Odder still that this would be such an issue that one of his democrat buddies - Claire McCaskill - would try to shove a bill through the senate to allow a Panamanian born McCain to hold the highest office in the land, if he has proof he is already eligible.

Show me the proof.

[DannyTN]

"They will have willfully lied to the public about the legal status of their candidate and directly tried to violate the constitution. I don't see how they could benefit from such action. "

You're talking about the party that just nominated plagarizing Joe Biden as their VP nominee, a guy who will clearly willfully lie to the public. Yet, amazingly the 'rats still have a large following.

The 'rats won't believe that it was willful. In fact, they will probably believe that somehow it was a republican trick. It ought to finish them, but it won't even make a dent. Most of the platform of the 'rat party ought not exist in the U.S., but it does.

[El Gato]

He was born in Colón, PANAMA

That's what his birth certificate says. But it is a Canal Zone, not Panamanian document, and Colón was the nearest town to the naval base.

Someone really should ask his mother about it. She does relate hearing the celebration at the O-club after John IIIs birth, but of course that could have been after she and little Johnny went back to their quarters on Coco Solo.

It's hard to believe that if their baby would not be an American citizen if born in the local hospital, that someone like the McCains (father and grandfather Annapolis graduates, and eventually Admirals) would go there in an era when home births were fairly common. Unless there was some indications of a "problem pregnancy" of course. And if there was, I'd think they'd evacuate the mother to be to the nearest *American* hospital, which was likely in the Canal zone. B

[El Gato]

I wonder what the Canal Zone birth certificate for others supposedly born on the Coco Solo base says for place of birth?

Sure the newspaper is unofficial, but it does introduce some doubt into the matter. Official documents can be wrong, and they can be misinterpreted, or taken out of the context of the times.

[El Gato]

The items/rules you list are not Constitutional matters. The "natural born citizen" issue is. The Contract by and with "We the People" must mean what it meant when written.

Cool, I’d like to see that change made. I’ve been hoping to see politicians hanging from lamposts my whole life.

Patience my FRiend. Barry S. gets elected and the Congress becomes more Solidly Socialist, that could happen, sooner rather than latter.

Only problem is, it might be Russians doing the hanging.

[null and void]

There is absolutely NO question that McCain is an American citizen.

The question is whether he is a 'natural born citizen'.

The answer depends entirely on the exact constitutional definition of 'natural born'.

A lot of people claim they are the sole arbiter of that.

They aren't.