Posted on 08/25/2008 7:26:38 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Mediocrates wrote:
Two groups amuse me:
Vegetarians who are supposedly happy with their choices but are constantly eating meat flavored this and that
and
The devout who are supposedly secure in their beliefs but spend their time trying to prove scientists wrong
Mine are the green crowd...
like the loons on HGTV that think they’ve saved the planet by turning a copper kettle into a chandelier, wholly unaware that copper occurs naturally within the earth,
and...
those so insecure about their worldview they hijack the ACLU (anti-Christian litigation unit) to silence ALL of society as they did in my county by sneakily threatening legal action if the school board didn’t remove Christmas, A FEDERAL HOLIDAY from the school calendar!
I suspect your #2 is more a result of my #2.
And we thought all the moonbats were libs...
If only that was true. Unfortunately when debating some of my liberal friends I have to spend way too much time disavowing my supposed fellow conservatives who espouse some completely moonbat views that have nothing to do at all with Conservatism.
What’s that? Everything we see is an unexplained chance, random accident and man came from apes?
On the tides, yes, all will agree with that. Interestingly enough, the motion of the planets can be explained by either model (geo or heliocentric), but the apparent reversal of the orbital patterns of the planets can better be described by a heliocentric model of the solar system. Even so, from our perspective on earth, the sun rises and sets, as does the moon and constellations, as well as the equinioxes, and thus we have the lunisolar calendar used by many ancient peoples. However, one must assume some reason for the origin of a 7 day week, which has been almost universal in it's use from the earliest recorded history. The only "scientific" explanation that I have seen is a subdivsion of the lunar cyle into 4 parts. However, the Judeo-Christian belief system references the 7 day creation week. Thus, each is left with a chicked-egg conundrum. Did Moses adopt the 7 day week that was in use into his creation account, or... was the creation account the basis for the 7 day week. Neither proposition can be proved conclusively, each must be accepted on faith! The Big Bang-er takes a Darwinian approach to social development, and must support the former explanation, or some other "rational" theory. The Biblical Creationist, obviously, accepts the latter.
Actually, man is an ape...by definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_apes
Wrong. The Sun Earth gravity is one hundred seventy times as strong as the Moon Earth gravity.
“Moon has twice the influence on tides as the sun” GDan
Correct.
Do you understand the difference between the two? How are we supposed to take your Astrological model of Geocentricism seriously when you are so mathematically incompetent?
“What part of the Word of God implies, suggests, hints at, recommends or otherwise mentions a Geocentric universe?”
Also....
“What force do you propose drags the Sun around the Earth while leaving the Earth motionless?”
Saying that you already have answered just makes you look like an obfuscating fool.
Not really. You're using the old, old model, not the one used by Einstein, Hoyle, Born and Ellis.
"However, one must assume some reason for the origin of a 7 day week, which has been almost universal in it's use from the earliest recorded history."
Did you know that the days of the week are named after the Sun, Moon and the 5 visible planets? Sun-day, Moon-day, Tiu's-day (Mars), Woden's-day (Mercury), Thor's-day (Jupiter), Frija's-day (Venus).
And finally, Saturn-day as the Sabbath day (Holy) and Saturn has a 'halo'.
Whadda coincidence!
Yep, my mistake for using the word 'force' rather than 'influence' in my original post.
Just how many people do you speak for?
Still absolutely and unambiguously incorrect.
The Sun exerts one hundred seventy times the force upon the earth that the moon does.
I have a mouse in my pocket.
Now can you answer my two very simple questions about your supposedly superior model?
What force drags the Sun around the Earth while not acting to move the Earth?
What Biblical justification can you source that implies suggests or otherwise mentions a Geocentric universe?
Actually, man is an ape...by definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_apes
Well, more proof to me that there’s gaping holes in evolution.
We’re just apes with some higher form of intelligence than other apes?
Oh wait, no intelligence is allowed! ALMOST forgot!
Well of course you are. Can you not even be honest about that?
"If you don't like the word “necessitates” then how about this question which you apparently will not answer. “What part of the Word of God implies, suggests, hints at, recommends or otherwise mentions a Geocentric universe?”"
No point in answering. You don't believe it and will insist that any reference I provide is metaphor.
" “What force do you propose drags the Sun around the Earth while leaving the Earth motionless?” Saying that you already have answered just makes you look like an obfuscating fool."
Insisting that I have not answered in the face of all of the evidence I have presented to you confirms that you simply do not want to understand. Maybe one of your geokinetic buddies will clue you in. But... maybe not.
And that's the difference between calculation and observation.
"To be entirely correct, we must tell you that the laws of physics involved actually show that the Moon is the one of the most important objects to the Earth... gravitationally speaking. It is the Moon which is responsible for things like ocean tides and such. All the other planets in our solar system added together do not have as large a gravitational effect on the Earth as the Moon does."
"Here is a table of tidal forces of the Sun, Moon, and Planets. With the Sun's tidal force equal to 1.00, the following values are given in Thompson (1981):"
Moon 2.21
Sun 1.00
Venus 0.000113
Jupiter 0.0000131
Mars 0.0000023
Mercury 0.0000007
Saturn 0.0000005
Uranus 0.000000001
Neptune 0.000000002
Pluto 0.0000000000001
For those of us who actually think, ad hominem insults such as this tend to harm the one making the insult more than the one receiving it. It cheapens the discussion, lessening the authority of the one who is demeaning his adversary.
A simple attack on the assertion, and it's subsequent disproof, carries much more weight than name calling, FWIW.
I’ve found a lot in common between the way evoatheists argue and the way leftists argue.
I describe their primary rhetorical device as
“proof by arrogant condescension”.
So when asked about what force drags the Sun around the Earth you incorrectly say that the Moon exerts twice as much gravitational force upon the Earth as the Sun does (The Sun exerts one hundred and seventy times as much force upon the Earth as the Moon does).
When confronted with the ludicrousness of this statement you say it was about the tides. Are you proposing that TIDES are what moves the Sun around the Earth? Otherwise what relevance do the tides have?
And please provide the Biblical passages, metaphorical or not, that make you think the Word of God supports your Geocentric model?
How about “for those of us who actually think”? Is that not an ad hominem in suggesting that I do not do any actual thinking?
Not only do I do “actual” thinking, I do “actual” calculations; both my thinking and calculations show that Geocentricism is bunk and that nobody can propose a force necessary and sufficient to drag the Sun around the Earth while leaving the Earth motionless.
Just how gracious can one be to someone who proposes a Geocentric model but will not describe the necessary components that would make the model work or cite the relevant passage of the Bible that he feels suggests a Geocentric universe, makes blatantly incorrect statements that are easily checked by simple mathematics, and keeps saying that anyone who isn't a Geocentrist just doesn't understand the brilliance of his mechanism which he will not explain?
The point is that calculated gravitational force is one thing while observed effects are something else. Geez dude.
"And please provide the Biblical passages, metaphorical or not, that make you think the Word of God supports your Geocentric model?"
Why?
and you said "Not really. You're using the old, old model, not the one used by Einstein, Hoyle, Born and Ellis. "
So school me on this. I was not aware that Geocentric models were more efficient and easier to understand than Heliocentric models. Can you provide a useful reference? Also, I don't understand the need to establish a Geocentric model in the first place. Scripture does not PLAINLY teach the model, only references the "...the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved." This, in my mind, refers to the establishmnet of the earth, and that no other agent than God can fundamentally alter it's position. Quite different than the 7 day creation week, that is PLAINLY taught in Genesis 1&2, Exodus 20:8-11, etc.
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