Posted on 08/18/2008 9:35:10 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
With five seats on the State Board of Education up for grabs this year, education advocates say how children learn about evolution hangs in the balance -- and who voters choose could affect Kansas' national reputation.
A frequent flip-flop between moderate and conservative majorities on the 10-member board has resulted in the state changing its science standards four times in the past eight years.
Conservatives have pushed for standards casting doubt on evolution, and moderates have said intelligent design does not belong in the science classroom.
In 2007, a new 6-4 moderate majority removed standards that called evolution into question.
This year, none of the three moderates whose seats are up for election are running again. Only one of the two conservative incumbents is running for re-election...
(Excerpt) Read more at kansas.com ...
And at least as many times, it’s been explained and re-explained to you that:
godless liberals no more have exclusive rights to science than they have to set the tone or format of discussion in FR forums!
besides, you’ve not once demonstrated your intent has anything whatsoever to do with science, not to mention you continually display so very little working knowledge of religion, science, etc.
not to mention the capability to set aside your deep-seated bias, condescension and projection problems.
If a scientist that happens to be Christian proposes ANYTHING it’s rejected out of hand and labeled, “but that’s not science.”
So far NONE of these observable facts have slowed you down.
*sigh*
try this...
unexplained, purposeless, random, orderless, matter from non-matter, natural, unintelligent...
and then think of alternatives...
and work from there.
==ACLU? I guess ad homonym is what passes for reasoned debate in the benighted backwaters you frequent (where dinosaurs walked with man, and Science is just a big conspiracy).
ACLU as ad homonym? I thought you would wear the name of the evos favorite battering ram with honor. I also find it interesting that you accuse me of ad homonym and then immediately live up to the characterization yourself. Is this your idea of adapting to your environment? If so, is it by chance or design?
==I happened to be reading James Madison.... maybe you just consider him an ACLU liberal as well.... after all his reading (and writing)of the 1st Amendment is exactly as I understand it to be meant.
I find it interesting that you rely on James Madison to defend your interpretation of the First Amendment. He wanted a constitution that centralized power in a national government, was opposed to the principle of federalism, and was totally opposed to the Bill of Rights. He only complied with calls for a Bill of Rights because the states would not agree to the Constitution without one. Learn some history.
All the best—GGG
==How is the reading of the First in any way a departure from Madison’s intent.
LOL!
I know History. James Madison was influenced by Thomas Jefferson (the guy some claim had ‘nothing to do with the Constitution) into including a bill of rights. He wrote the bill of rights, he was not “totally opposed to the Bill of Rights”.
Other than attacking Madison, can you explain how his view of the Amendment he wrote is at odds with the current interpretation? Or is accusations of “you are ACLU” the limit of your argumentative ability?
== know History. James Madison was influenced by Thomas Jefferson (the guy some claim had ‘nothing to do with the Constitution) into including a bill of rights. He wrote the bill of rights, he was not “totally opposed to the Bill of Rights”.
He didn’t write the Bill of Rights, he copied them almost verbatim from George Mason’s “Master Draft,” which were in turn were heavily based on the Virginia Declaration of Rights (which were drafted by—yes, you guessed it—the very same George Mason twelve years earlier).
So if you were in Louisiana and not troubled by the bullying of atheists, and had authorization to teach scientific alternatives to evolution, what would you teach?
Who made that rule?
Who made that rule?
James Madison is called “the father of the Constitution” and he did write the bill of rights (heavily influenced to include them by Jefferson, and basing them largely upon Mason).
So again, OTHER THAN ATTACKING MADISON, can you describe how his view of the 1st Amendment is at odds with a current reading of this amendment?
Also “verbatim” is a bit of a stretch of the truth...even for you. Which passages in the Virginia Declaration of Rights do you find “verbatim” in the U.S. Constitution?
Virginia Declaration of Rights
I That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.
II That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people; that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them.
III That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government that is best, which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and that, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal.
IV That no man, or set of men, are entitled to exclusive or separate emoluments or privileges from the community, but in consideration of public services; which, not being descendible, neither ought the offices of magistrate, legislator, or judge be hereditary.
V That the legislative and executive powers of the state should be separate and distinct from the judicative; and, that the members of the two first may be restrained from oppression by feeling and participating the burthens of the people, they should, at fixed periods, be reduced to a private station, return into that body from which they were originally taken, and the vacancies be supplied by frequent, certain, and regular elections in which all, or any part of the former members, to be again eligible, or ineligible, as the laws shall direct.
VI That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people in assembly ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community have the right of suffrage and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent or that of their representatives so elected, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assented, for the public good.
VII That all power of suspending laws, or the execution of laws, by any authority without consent of the representatives of the people is injurious to their rights and ought not to be exercised.
VIII That in all capital or criminal prosecutions a man hath a right to demand the cause and nature of his accusation to be confronted with the accusers and witnesses, to call for evidence in his favor, and to a speedy trial by an impartial jury of his vicinage, without whose unanimous consent he cannot be found guilty, nor can he be compelled to give evidence against himself; that no man be deprived of his liberty except by the law of the land or the judgement of his peers.
IX That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed; nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
X That general warrants, whereby any officer or messenger may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of a fact committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, or whose offense is not particularly described and supported by evidence, are grievous and oppressive and ought not to be granted.
XI That in controversies respecting property and in suits between man and man, the ancient trial by jury is preferable to any other and ought to be held sacred.
XII That the freedom of the press is one of the greatest bulwarks of liberty and can never be restrained but by despotic governments.
XIII That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power.
XIV That the people have a right to uniform government; and therefore, that no government separate from, or independent of, the government of Virginia, ought to be erected or established within the limits thereof.
XV That no free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.
XVI That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.
Adopted unanimously June 12, 1776 Virginia Convention of Delegates drafted by Mr. George Mason
==Also “verbatim” is a bit of a stretch of the truth...
John Adams wrote in his diary (June 23, 1777):
The Bill of Rights [Pennsylvania’s] is taken almost verbatim from that of Virginia [Virginia Declaration of Rights], which was made and published two or three months before that of Philadelphia [Pennsylvania’s Declaration of Rights, late August 1776] was begun, it was made by Mr. Mason....
And OTHER than attacking Madison (as an unoriginal plagiarist and as opposed to a Bill of Rights), how do you feel that his view of the 1st Amendment is at odds with the current view?
==And OTHER than attacking Madison (as an unoriginal plagiarist and as opposed to a Bill of Rights)...
Those are your words, not mine. My point in bringing up that Madison copied Mason’s work is not that Madison was unoriginal or a plagiarists, but rather that he was complying with the wishes of the states, who, let by Mason, refused to ratify the Consitution without MASON’S BILL OF RIGHTS. In the end, Madison was forced to comply, and I’m sure Mason et al were very pleased to see that the proposed Bill of Rights, with a few notable exceptions, reflected their’s (and Mason’s) original intent.
WOW!!!!! That's the pot calling the kettle black.
Evos are masters in the area of discounting credentials.
Projecting much?
Simple question and you got through Olympic style gymnastics to avoid answering it.
Do you believe that everything is just a result of accident, chance, random whatever? If it’s not, then it’s the result of design and intent.
The former ends in meaninglessness, the latter in purpose.
If everything is the result of accident, then why should we take anything you have to say seriously?
That there is God or not.
Go back over my posts and tell me where I have questioned anyone's credentials.
I have asked a dozen times, not that Louisiana has a law protecting the teaching of scientific alternatives to evolution, what would you teach.
You may note that I haven't required anyone to flash their credentials. I ask for a reasoned list of explanations for the evidence presented by the fossil record and DNA. An alternative explanation that encompasses the findings of biology and geology.
The whole issue in these cases with the schools be it LA or KS is not over “scientific” alternatives to the ToE, but ANY alternatives.
The ACLU and their liberal elitist buddies aren’t concerned about other “scientific” alternatives, but any other alternatives.
They’d be just as happy with a billion “scientific” alternatives, as long as it kept God or anything but a completely random, naturalistic, we-don’t-know-how-it-came-about, but-it-couldn’t-include-any-hint-of-intelligence-or-design thinking.
What are your scientific credentials and experience in the scientific fields?
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