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Students should be able to challenge the courses for which they are denied credit. This is rediculous.

Here we go again...

1 posted on 08/13/2008 9:44:45 AM PDT by Sopater
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To: Sopater

Rack one up for the thought police. Regulation of the mind — the next big government program.


2 posted on 08/13/2008 9:48:24 AM PDT by Juan Medén
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To: Sopater

You wouldn’t be complaining if they didn’t get science credit for a class in scientology.


3 posted on 08/13/2008 9:49:46 AM PDT by Soliton (> 100)
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To: Sopater

“Judge Says University Can Deny Course Credit to Christian Graduates Taught With Creationism Texts”

But full credits for courses centered on the Global Warming Hoax, the Benefits of a Marxist society, the cultural equivalence of Western civilisation and that of naked savages in Africa, and of course the great historical and ongoing evil that is the United States....


4 posted on 08/13/2008 9:50:14 AM PDT by EyeGuy
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To: Sopater

My son is starting high school at a Christian school in California today. His school uses secular text for the regular classes, and puts a Christian spin on the cousework. They have a separate Bible class.

I have mixed opinions about this. Not sure what to make of the ruling.


5 posted on 08/13/2008 9:50:37 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: Sopater

“but instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking and omitted important science and history topics.”

Yea, like public schools (and their texts) are on any more solid ground in the areas of critical thinking and important science and history topics. sheesh


6 posted on 08/13/2008 9:51:40 AM PDT by DonaldC
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To: Sopater

IOW, Bible-believing Christians need not apply to many institutions of higher learning.

Evolution is one expression of the (false) occult doctrine of becoming (like God). See Genesis 3:1-4 for the author of this doctrine.

Is it realistic to expect God to bless America while we are rejecting Him?


8 posted on 08/13/2008 9:53:17 AM PDT by SecAmndmt (Arm yourselves!)
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To: Sopater

Hey, does this apply to Muslims as well? Do they have Muslim high schools here? What about if they studied in their home country and come over here?


10 posted on 08/13/2008 9:53:38 AM PDT by autumnraine
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To: Sopater

The dogmatic war on creationism continues...

They know that evolution will shudder and collapse if students were exposed to the flimsy evidence.


11 posted on 08/13/2008 9:53:57 AM PDT by Elpasser
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To: Sopater

When a HS graduate gives a commencement speech that mentions Jesus, the state is establishing a religion and the students right to free speech and expression of religion must be denied. When a state college decrees there is no god, the state is not establishing a religion. Something ain’t right there.


12 posted on 08/13/2008 9:54:46 AM PDT by Always Right (Obama: more arrogant than Bill Clinton, more naive than Jimmy Carter, and more liberal than LBJ.)
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To: Sopater

To be expanded to include those taught that homosexuality is an unnatural desire and deny of the myth of man-made global climate change?


13 posted on 08/13/2008 9:55:03 AM PDT by weegee (Hi there.)
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To: Sopater
Students should be able to challenge the courses for which they are denied credit.

Challenge question #1: How old is the Earth?

14 posted on 08/13/2008 9:55:48 AM PDT by ColdWater
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To: Sopater
...but instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking ...

Apparently, questioning the infallibility of the working hypothesis of 'goo to you' macroevolution is a failure to teach critical thinking.
Whereas the ability to regurgitate secular dogma is.

15 posted on 08/13/2008 9:55:58 AM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: Sopater; Gabz; SoftballMominVA; abclily; aberaussie; albertp; AliVeritas; Amelia; A_perfect_lady; ..

Public Education Ping

This list is for intellectual discussion of articles and issues related to public education (including charter schools) from the preschool to university level. Items more appropriately placed on the “Naughty Teacher” list, “Another reason to Homeschool” list, or of a general public-school-bashing nature will not be pinged.

If you would like to be on or off this list, please freepmail Amelia, Gabz, Shag377, or SoftballMominVa

28 posted on 08/13/2008 10:16:37 AM PDT by SoftballMominVA (I'm trying to think of a new screen name - any suggestions?)
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To: Sopater

I teach a biology class with Bob Jones. It is the best written biology text I’ve ever seen, and covers so much ground it is in two volumes.

I’ve taught from others and find this the best.

Now it is true they don’t approve of evolution, and they cover the subject from a creationist viewpoint. They also cover how we are guardians of the earth and that a right spirit anchors the scientist.

They also put the history of science in a historical perspective, something secular texts are unable to do because they don’t understand how religion influences the science. It makes science so much more understandable, when you realize where all these great minds were coming from. For instance, you can’t understand Kepler until you understand he was a man of faith. He wanted to be a theologican and came to understand that by seeking to understand the universe, he was seeking God.

These are some of the things that make the Christian text different from the secular messes out today. It has a wholeness, of completeness, that secular texts lack. I get the same feeling reading history texts. They can’t mention God, so they have no understanding of reasoning people used.

Modern secular science texts and christian ones are not compatable, in my opinion. Secular texts have a strong emphasis on everything being chance. IMHO, they leave kids feeling very uncertain in an unstable world. Christian texts emphasize providence, the sure hand of a Creator guiding the formation of life and the cosmos.

A good teacher understands that kids will graduate into a modern society, and makes sure they understand all points of view. I use secular texts and readings as an adjunct in the subject, and have at least one class where the kids are assigned debate topics, having to take both sides.

I can tell you, as far as pure biology goes (understanding, for instance, physiology or botany) that a text like Bob Jones is superior, and the kids come out with excellent understanding.

This is just a power play by zealot secular evolutionists to attack Christianity. They don’t really care about the kids knowledge.

Sorry for the long post, but I do have some experience on this. I have spent many hours struggling over picking science texts.


40 posted on 08/13/2008 10:27:50 AM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: Sopater
OTOH, if the students are home / private schooled, then why attend the University OF California? Stay private. And in terms of not teaching critical thinking / alternate viewpoints ... bwahahahahahahaha

pot kettle black

54 posted on 08/13/2008 10:42:07 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (College kid: "Do you have a minute for Obama?" NVA: "Not now or ever.")
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To: Sopater

Yay. Finally our all-knowing, benevolent government is helping us fight those evil, anti-knowledge Christians who are bent on starting a modern day crusade against science!!!! /sarcasm

Next on the agenda: apply same tactics to fighting those who don’t buy into human-created global warming, moral equivalence of all religions, the morality of killing unborn babies, and pro-homosexual teachings . . .

And so continues the USA . . . to hell in a hand basket!


61 posted on 08/13/2008 10:50:37 AM PDT by DesertSapper (God, Family, Country . . . . . . . . . . and dead terrorists!!!)
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To: Sopater

We were taught evolution in my Catholic high school. By a nun, no less. I kid you not. She taught us that whether you believe it or not, you have to look at the evidence with a critical eye. And besides, she told us, if it exists, it was in God’s plan. A reasonable, even-handed approach, and the Diocese stood behind her 100%.

I just don’t understand why you can’t keep science and relligion separate. Learning the theories and evidence doesn’t mean you have to believe in them. And yes, that includes Global Warming. But the theories are there, and should be taught as part of a science curriculum.


70 posted on 08/13/2008 11:16:10 AM PDT by Ace of Spades (Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Sopater

By the way, I really had problems with this judge’s ruling. for instance, he writes, “ They...instead made a legitimate claim that the texts failed to teach critical thinking and omitted important science and history topics.”

I’ve read tons of secular and non secular texts, both in science and history. IMHO, it’s the secular texts that leave stuff out, because they run into too much trouble if they mention God or religion.

For instance, ever read a secular text about the pilgrims? They may mention the Mayflower compact, but they won’t quote it. It mentions God.

The Pilgrims came to america because they were so committed to worshipping God in their own way. So you would think that in a text on the Pilgrims the primary emphasis would be on religion and how it influenced pilgrim society and how it got them there in the first place.

But the school text I read the emphasis in the pilgrim paragraphs was on how they repressed their women! Now, does that lead to any understanding of them?

You can see it all through secular school texts. I just read a classic christian textbook, The Church in History. When I put it down, I said, oh THATS who Charles Martel was. Because that area of history is so disjointed in modern texts, I never understood really what was going on there.

Without the understanding of faith and religious movements, the study of history and science become confused and chaotic. You don’t really realize why anything got to where it did.


71 posted on 08/13/2008 11:17:51 AM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: Sopater

Colleges and universities including religious-based colleges regularly deny credits for any number of courses. There are agreed upon guidlines for what constitutes academic credit for a subject and if those standards are not met there is no constitutional or inherent right for any person to demand credit anyway. My university would not accept as a biology course a course that only required a reading of the theory of evolution any more than it would accept just having read the bible as credit for comparative religion.


90 posted on 08/13/2008 1:30:51 PM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: Sopater
Otero, S. James

".. Federal Judicial Service:
Judge, U. S. District Court, Central District of California
Nominated by George W. Bush on January 7, 2003, to a seat vacated by Richard A. Paez; Confirmed by the Senate on February 10, 2003, and received
commission on February 12, 2003..."

94 posted on 08/13/2008 1:49:29 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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