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To: Raycpa; David
§ 1409. Children born out of wedlock

My research shows that that amendment was adopted in 1986 and therefore it was not in effect in 1961 and thus while it would make a person a citizen at birth, it would not make a person a "Natural Born" Citizen.

Thus while it would make Obama a Citizen, it would not give him "Natural Born" status. It would simply give him "Ex-Post Facto Legislatively Mandated Citizenship at Birth" status.

4 posted on 07/04/2008 9:37:36 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe

For analysis

Sec. 1409. Children born out of wedlock
TITLE 8, CHAPTER 12, SUBCHAPTER III, Part I, Sec. 1409.
SOURCE
(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title III, ch. 1, Sec. 309, 66 Stat. 238; Pub. L. 97-116, Sec. 18(l), Dec. 29, 1981, 95 Stat. 1620; Pub. L. 99-653, Sec. 13, Nov. 14, 1986, 100 Stat. 3657; Pub. L. 100-525, Secs. 8(k), 9(r), Oct. 24, 1988, 102 Stat. 2617, 2621.)
AMENDMENTS

1988 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 100-525, Sec. 8(k), amended Pub. L.
99-653. See 1986 Amendment note below.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 100-525, Sec. 9(r)(1), substituted “before
December 24, 1952” for “prior to the effective date of this
chapter” and “at any time” for “before or after the effective date
of this chapter and”.
Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 100-525, Sec. 9(r)(2), substituted “after
December 23, 1952” for “on or after the effective date of this
chapter”.
1986 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 99-653, as amended by Pub. L.
100-525, Sec. 8(k), amended subsec. (a) generally. Prior to
amendment, subsec. (a) read as follows: “The provisions of
paragraphs (c), (d), (e), and (g) of section 1401 of this title,
and of paragraph (2) of section 1408, of this title shall apply as
of the date of birth to a child born out of wedlock on or after the
effective date of this chapter, if the paternity of such child is
established while such child is under the age of twenty-one years
by legitimation.”
1981 - Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 97-116, Sec. 18(l)(1), substituted
“(c), (d), (e), and (g) of section 1401” for “(3) to (5) and (7) of
section 1401(a)”.
Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 97-116, Sec. 18(l)(2), substituted “section
1401(g)” for “section 1401(a)(7)”.

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1988 AMENDMENT

Amendment by section 8(k) of Pub. L. 100-525 effective as if
included in the enactment of the Immigration and Nationality Act
Amendments of 1986, Pub. L. 99-653, see section 309(b)(15) of Pub.
L. 102-232, set out as an Effective and Termination Dates of 1988
Amendments note under section 1101 of this title.

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1986 AMENDMENT

Section 23(e) of Pub. L. 99-653, as added by Pub. L. 100-525,
Sec. 8(r), Oct. 24, 1988, 102 Stat. 2619, provided that:
“(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2)(B), the new section
309(a) [8 U.S.C. 1409(a)] (as defined in paragraph (4)(A)) shall
apply to persons who have not attained 18 years of age as of the
date of the enactment of this Act [Nov. 14, 1986].
“(2) The old section 309(a) shall apply -
“(A) to any individual who has attained 18 years of age as of
the date of the enactment of this Act, and
“(B) any individual with respect to whom paternity was
established by legitimation before such date.
“(3) An individual who is at least 15 years of age, but under 18
years of age, as of the date of the enactment of this Act, may
elect to have the old section 309(a) apply to the individual
instead of the new section 309(a).
“(4) In this subsection:
“(A) The term ‘new section 309(a)’ means section 309(a) of the
Immigration and Nationality Act [8 U.S.C. 1409(a)], as amended by
section 13 of this Act [section 13 of Pub. L. 99-653] and as in
effect after the date of the enactment of this Act.
“(B) The term ‘old section 309(a)’ means section 309(a) of the
Immigration and Nationality Act, as in effect before the date of
the enactment of this Act.”

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1981 AMENDMENT

Amendment by Pub. L. 97-116 effective Dec. 29, 1981, see section
21(a) of Pub. L. 97-116, set out as a note under section 1101 of
this title.

REFERENCES IN TEXT

Section 405 of this Act, referred to in subsec. (b), is section
405 of act June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title IV, 66 Stat. 280, which is
set out as a Savings Clause note under section 1101 of this title.


8 posted on 07/04/2008 9:48:22 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: P-Marlowe

Then why the 1952 reference?


11 posted on 07/04/2008 10:00:38 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: P-Marlowe
My research shows that that amendment was adopted in 1986 and therefore it was not in effect in 1961 and thus while it would make a person a citizen at birth, it would not make a person a "Natural Born" Citizen.

What amendment was adopted 1981?

I believe that the 1981 amendment (Pub. L. 97-116) affected only (a) and (b), not (c). Thus, he would be a natural born citizen.

70 posted on 07/07/2008 5:59:08 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: P-Marlowe; Raycpa
My research shows that that amendment was adopted in 1986 and therefore it was not in effect in 1961 and thus while it would make a person a citizen at birth, it would not make a person a "Natural Born" Citizen.

I believe your research is flawed. The quote was from the INS Act of 1953, which can be found here. As near as I can tell that was the law in effect in 1961 when Obama was born. According to the provisions found in Act 301 and Act 309, Obama appears to be a natural born citizen even if he was born overseas.

99 posted on 07/10/2008 5:27:15 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: P-Marlowe

“while it would make a person a citizen at birth, it would not make a person a “Natural Born” Citizen. “

A citizen at birth *IS* a natural-born citizen. They are one and the same.


121 posted on 07/11/2008 9:18:57 AM PDT by WOSG (http://no-bama.blogspot.com/ - NObama, stop the Hype and Chains candidate)
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To: P-Marlowe

I’m still quite confused on the out of wedlock stipulation - i have always had a suspicion because of obama’s “murky” remarks - i figured it was because of the marriage back in kenya
However have you seen this:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22very+young+and+very+single+when+she+had+him.%22+&btnG=Google+Search

If they are looking for a loop hole in the law - then they just set it up in an interview.
Obamas mom was very young - and very - single

Married and divorced 2 years later- yet Michelle now tells us she was - single...when bammy was born

everything about this guy smells crooked.

not sure.


140 posted on 07/13/2008 5:42:00 AM PDT by bygreybeard
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