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To: Vinnie
A 5000 watt generator using a 12hp gas motor turns a larger rotor inside a larger stator to get the 5000 watts ....more torque required. Therefore more weight of the larger generator components needs more power to deliver the wattage at a given velocity.

You have a generator?

If so, fire it up with exactly 1 pint of gas and pull 500 watts of load. Measure the time until the gas runs out.

Then take the same generator with exactly one pint of gas and load it to 1500 watts and time it until the gas runs out.

There will not be 2 minutes difference in those times - been there on that one.

You are are correct about the flux field getting stronger when more load is being required, however, I do not believe there is a direct (linear) ft-lbs of torque required to overcome to turn the rotor versus to total charge on the stator surfaces if we are discussing electric flux, not magnetic flux as: Gauss's law for electric fields, another of Maxwell's equations versus Faraday's equation for magnetic flux.

One thing's for sure, there is no energy gain nor energy conservation running a H2/O2 generator for fuel supplementation to gasoline engines, however, the electricity is available from a car's alternator to supply the power easily if the brown gas generator isn't too large and the electrodes are of high quality.

My question is how many cu ft / min of brown gas has to be made to lean back the gasoline consumption when a vehicle is traveling 60 mph to where there is at least a 25% savings in mpg on the gas.

I don't see such a device saving gas in stop and go city driving as much as when traveling a constant speed. Seems to me an adjustable voltage has to be supplied to generator when idling or a compressor with pressure regulator is needed to temporarily store the brown gas to add more when accelerating to obtain the gas mpg efficiency.

It's definitely doable....does a car's gas mileage go down when some young punk hooks up a 1000 watt boom boom stereo system in his ride? I think not....the only thing that goes down is his hearing. LOL!!

60 posted on 06/11/2008 4:10:28 PM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: RSmithOpt

That’s an interesting experiment, but there are some likely sources of significant error. First is the nature of the fuel measurement. You need to control for fuel trapped at stall. You could do this by replacing the fuel tank with a graduated cylinder, and recording the time required to consume a fixed quantity of fuel at various loads.

The second thing would be to control for engine temperature during the run. A cold engine is going to consume more fuel than a hot engine. You sould run the engine at full load for say fifteen minutes before each test.

If you control for these, and several other parameters, what you will ultimately find is that there is a direct relationship between power produced and fuel consumed. You will also find that fuel efficiency improves as you get closer to wide open throttle (WOT). Peak engine efficiency occurs at WOT and peak torque.

IMO If there is any shread of technical merit to Hydrogen generation, it is this effect of improving specific fuel consumption as load increases, but this effect is probably buried by the efficiency of the conversion process.


62 posted on 06/12/2008 6:25:53 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (This line intentionally left blank)
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To: RSmithOpt; Vinnie
Forget how the electricity is generated for a second. Lets say that it is coming from an outlet on the wall.

When it is empty you aren't using any electricity at all, but when you start plugging stuff in, the wattage used starts climbing. You pay for exactly the amount of electricity that you use. None is wasted.

A generator or alternator is exactly the same, except that it is very inefficient. If a generator is just idling it is 100% wasted energy, with no demand no energy is being produced. And here is where the rub is, just hooking up an alternator to an engines wastes about 2 hp, it actually gets more efficient as as it produces electricity up to about 10 - 20 amps. Basically what I am trying to say is that the first few amps that the alternator produces are essentially free (if you don't use them you lose them). Then as the amp demand increases the alternator starts to demand more hp, up to 8 to 10 hp.

So basically what I am trying to say is that both of your are correct, Yes there is some 'free or wasted' electricity but it is only because the system is so inefficient and the 'free' electricity is only in very limited amounts any thing beyond a tiny amount is very expensive.

Let me illustrate the problem. A typical auto engine is lucky to get 20% to 40% of the energy in a gallon of gas, most of the energy escapes as wasted heat. An alternator is lets be generous 50% efficient and electrolysis is lets be generous again, 50% efficient. So if a gallon of gas has 100,000 BTU's (it has more but I am mathematically challenged) that means that this hydrogen/oxygen produced by the engine is (100k x .4 x .5 x .5) = 10,000 BTU's. So essentially what these people are doing is taking 100k BTU's and converting them to 10k BTU's.

This kind of reminds me of the time I bought a trailer. I asked the seller how much it would hurt our gas mileage towing the trailer, the seller said oh about 10 miles to the gallon. I looked at my brother in confusion, because our truck only got 10 miles to the gallon, we wondered if we would be better off just pouring the gasoline on the ground. As it turned out it didn't affect the trucks gas mileage at all.

67 posted on 06/12/2008 3:47:20 PM PDT by LeGrande
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