Man Shot After Shooting Police Dog: Family Outraged

Pittsburgh Tribune Review ^ | May 7, 2008 | Michael Hasch

[PittsburghAfterDark]

A Knoxville man shot and killed a Pittsburgh police dog Tuesday before the canine's handler returned fire, killing the man in what city police Chief Nate Harper called "an unfortunate" but justifiable action. The shooting outraged and angered the family of the 19-year-old man, Justin Jackson. He was pronounced dead by a passing paramedic almost immediately after the shooting that occurred at 6:53 p.m. in front of the UPMC facility on Arlington Avenue on the border of Knoxville and Mt. Oliver.

Harper said the dog's handler ordered the canine -- a 6-year-old German shepherd named Aulf -- to attack after Jackson pulled a gun from under his shirt. Both the officer, an eight-year-veteran Harper did not identify, and Jackson fired several shots, the chief said.

"They shot my son in the head. The officer told me, 'Our dog got shot so we shot him.' They killed my son over a dog," said Donald James Jackson of the West End.

"My 19-year-old son is lying there dead, shot in the head, execution-style. My son's brains are laying on the street. This is crazy. I'm going to do whatever I have to do, file charges against the officers, for my son. It's terrible, the mentality they have," Jackson said as he tried to comfort his wife.

"We are not going to let them get away with this!" Anna Jackson screamed. "They will pay for killing my son. They are going to pay for shooting my son over a dog!"

[PennsylvaniaMom]

And I thank you, KC for your kind post.

As a mother I am trully saddened for the loss the Jackson family has suffered. Ironically though, much of the local coverage seems to mirror FR...with multiple family and friends all but claiming in the media they have ‘won the Pittsburgh Lottery’ not heartache at the loss of life. Pretty disheartening to learn conservatives are cheering on the race-baiting lawyers.

And by the way....’spot on’ about the Warren Court.
PaMom

[trussell]

The number of items in the formula turns out to be quite huge

It can appear that way when you repeat the same factors over and over.

I'm going to chose to leave the conversation with you because I've come to realize there is no use arguing with an obvious cop-hater such as you. This does not mean you have won the arguement...just that I am tired of repeating the same thing and reading the same thing from the others who have tried.

Enjoy your paranoia of those who are trained to protect you. I'll chose to thank them for their service and reserve my dislike for those who abuse their authority.

[Valpal1]

In the early eighties, a young police officer named Dennis Teuller wrote an article for Chuck Taylor’s Magazine titled “How Close is Too Close?”. In the ground breaking article, Officer Teuller compared the time frames in which an adequately trained officer could draw and fire an accurate shot, and the time frame in which an able-bodied man armed with a contact weapon could cross a seven yard distance. The time was remarkably similar - 1.5 seconds for each.

http://www.usconcealedcarry.org/news/newsletter/the-21-foot-rule/

A dog can do that 7 yards in .5 second according to your stat. A dog is faster than a human, which is why we use weapons AND dogs to hunt with, or we'd have starved to death millenia ago.

[Graycliff]

(You should watch cable TV also.)

I’d rather rely on my own experience with canine patrols. My last year with the SO, we started 2 canine units.

[Graycliff]

From a distance of 21 ft, an assailant can get to you before you can pull your weapon. Dog’s are much faster.

[Valpal1]

Or to put in another way, multiple studies put the time required to pull, aim and shoot to take 1.5 seconds. A dog can cover 21 meters or 22 yards (66 feet) in that same time frame.

I’m seriously doubting that this altercation took place at a distance that great, but maybe they kept 60 feet back and yelled at him to show his hands.

Yeah, dogs are the “Flash” compared to humans.

[tioga]

mm, I’d say the ‘burg trains it’s cops to be effective. I like the line about a passing paramedic being right there johnny on the spot and all.

[Valpal1]

Or to put in another way, multiple studies put the time required to pull, aim and shoot to take 1.5 seconds. A dog can cover 21 meters or 22 yards (66 feet) in that same time frame.

I’m seriously doubting that this altercation took place at a distance that great, but maybe they kept 60 feet back and yelled at him to show his hands.

Yeah, dogs are the “Flash” compared to humans.

[Graycliff]

Officer kills Pittsburgh man after police dog shot

Pittsburgh police say a 19-year-old man was shot and killed by an officer after the man shot a police dog.

Chief Nate Harper says the officers asked the man to remove his hands from under his clothing. Harper says they then noticed a gun and sent the police dog. Harper says the man fired at the dog, fatally wounding it.

The dog’s handler returned fire, hitting the man in the head and killing him.

http://www.kdkaradio.com/pages/2140757.php?

So the gun was seen before the canine was released!

[Valpal1]

Not according to HamiltonJay and other cop haters, the family (why he was turning his life around and wasn’t known to carry a gun!) and other alleged witnesses.

/sarchasm

[HamiltonJay]

Keep your imaginations.. A german shepard AT FULL GATE moves at 14 M/s.. it isn’t covering 21 M/s from a dead stop.

[HamiltonJay]

Please, you have read what you have wanted to read and ignored what you didn’t. I never ever quoted the family once, so please stuff it.

There is nothing cop hating about waiting for the investigation to sort things out, and recognising that witness statements made to the press do not match the statements by police.

If you are incapable of accepting that simple reality, that’s on you.

Have fun attempting to portray your ignorance as sarcasm.

[HamiltonJay]

No it can’t you ignorant dolt.

Your ability to read, or at least comprehend is becoming highly questionable.

A german shepard AT FULL RUN can cover about 14 M/S... not from a dead stop, and a fast human being can cover about 10 M/S at full run (not from a dead stop). Human beings ROUTINELY outrun and evade police dogs, something they should not be able to do by your foolish view of things.

Pleanty of humans and animals have been killed charging an armed person, yes even from short distances, your argument that no one can pull a gun and shoot a charging animal is beyond stupid.

The investigation will sort out what happened. If the guy pulled the gun and threatened cops and/or the public, then there is no issue with his brain being sidewalk paste. If however he wasn’t and they sicked a dog on him and then shot him for what equates for self defense, well that’s problematic.

Oh and BTW, the cops story has already changed since yesterday, in latest reports.. now whether that change is due clearing out the fog of the incident, or changing to fit the outcome remains to be seen.

The investigation will happen.

[HamiltonJay]

Uh, no they aren’t... 9 to 10 M/s vs 14 M/s is hardly the flash, and thats at FULL SPEED for both species, not the “flash” of one vs another. Keep living in dreamtime.

[dragnet2]

However I can’t say that if a dog was coming after me and I had a gun that I would not do the exact same thing... to expect any human to take a dog attack so they can stay in compliance with an order is a bit unrealistic.

Are you suggesting any suspect given orders by police should ignore the order, and if the dog is released, it's reasonable to shoot the dog?

[Valpal1]

Yes, and there is no way this confrontation took place at that distance either. One witness put them at about 10 feet, less than 3 meters.

Further supports that the shooter had the gun out with intent to shoot before the dog was released.

They train these teams with this exact scenario, most times the dog wins, which is why they release them, because more often than not the dog prevents the gun being fired, because they are faster than people. Studies show it takes humans 2/10 of a second to decide to pull the trigger. A dog at full tilt covers 2.8 meters, that’s 9 feet. Dogs are way faster than the 1.5 seconds of the 21 foot rule.

[TalonDJ]

You've got to be a closet democrat...

No, I am a Christian. And followers of Jesus don't equate 10 generations of humans with one dog. Democrats do that along with other judgments on who should live or die, like unborn babies or those with severe disability. I might judge the mans actions but it is not my place to judge the actions of his ancestors. That sort of judging is not the role, responsibility, or right of any human. Conservatives don't devalue human life this way. How I might 'feel' if someone killed a family member of mine does not enter into it. That sort of 'logic' is the same as the anger of the family in the story over their kid being killed 'because of a dog'. Same emotion in place of logic, same depth of reason.

[MrB]

I’m sure this has been covered, don’t have time to read 350+ posts.

But it is a DOG. They can call him a “police officer” all they want to, but it’s still a DOG. Not worth a human life.

[HamiltonJay]

Yea, well, NOT this one.. this particular dog, was not only shot, but if memory serves, shot twice.

The investigation will happen, and hopefully it will be run by a 3rd party so that its conclusions won’t be controversial.

[Valpal1]

I never said no one could shoot and stop a charging animal or human at short distances. I quoted an article on the well known 1.5 seconds/21 foot rule.

Dogs are faster than folks, also a known fact of the universe.

Both of these make the officer/chief of police statements more probable than claims of the family or alleged witnesses to the contrary, which is all I have ever claimed.

Insults and angry tones = loser.