My Life in a Polygamist Compound

Slate ^ | 04/16/08 | Torie Bosch

[DFG]

When Texas authorities seized 416 children in a raid on a compound of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Americans quickly learned that the religious group encourages polygamy and the marriage of young girls to older men. Escape, a memoir published last fall, offers a more detailed portrait of life with the FLDS. In the book, Carolyn Jessop, a sixth-generation polygamist describes her life as the fourth wife of Merril Jessop, who ran the recently raided Texas compound. Carolyn left Merril in 2003, before he moved to Texas, but her memoir sheds light on the man and on the beliefs and practices common within the insular community. Below, Slate flags Carolyn's most intriguing, strange, and heartbreaking allegations.

[pandoraou812]

I am wondering what Warren Jeffs thinks about his beloved YFZ ranch now. I wonder if any authorities have gone to talk with him. I would think that since he put the whole thing together he ought to have an idea of who is there. Not that I think he would tell them anything....

[metmom]

There have been convictions. Warren Jeffs is in jail on rape charges. This is his group.

The witness could not exist, she could be somewhere, she could be dead.

Regardless, the TX Rangers saw enough that they got a second warrant. Alleged child abuse cases take time. Charges can’t and shouldn’t be brought instantly.

There’s plenty of information available. Here’s something for your reading enjoyment:

Newly Married Girls in Polygamist Sect Forced to Have Sex in Temple Bed, Court Documents Say

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=175#175
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=207#207
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=218#218
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=220#220
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=252#252
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=253#253
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=286#286
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=288#288
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999328/posts?page=300#300

Informant: Men had sex with underage girls in FLDS temple
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999244/posts?page=29#29
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999244/posts?page=93#93

OUTSIDE LOOKING IN (Interview of ex-FLDS member...male)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2003232/posts

My Life in a Polygamist Compound
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2003504/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2003504/posts?page=97#97

Give em back. Texas Raid Based on a LIE??? (Blog Post includes video news clip)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2003594/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2003594/posts?page=36#36

[wardaddy]

I understand there is polygamy.

And yes, another Jim Jones situation would be deplorable.

Can’t argue with either of those

[wardaddy]

You sure have a lot of info lined up on this..

Are you personally involved?

[PennsylvaniaMom]

I am wondering what Warren Jeffs thinks about his beloved YFZ ranch now.

Well...he could just re-register, show up here again and post...(there have been a a couple noobs who could have been WJ--lol)..

But I am thinking he is just really, really pi$$ed that he ventured out of the 'Moridor' (I read that on another thread...its the stretch of UT, AZ and CO where polys are 'winked' at) and tied up all those preciou$ re$ource$ out on the TX scrub....it proves 'don't mess with Texas.'

[wardaddy]

What do the authorities consider underaged?

[SkyPilot]

Ahhh, the disruptor is here, trying to inflame and shut down this thread. (Not that that would help, there are 30 other threads currently running about Mormon polygamy) I suggest we not touch this tar baby.

Agreed.

By the way, Restornu (aka "Resty") has been banned or suspended.

[P-Marlowe]

Now that we’re starting to see how evil this cult is, I’m going to say I’m still in favor of this raid.

When it comes down to brass tacks, that whole compound was bought and paid for with money stolen from the state welfare department.

I'd say since the State of Texas paid for that compound, they should have a right to visit it and see what's happening any damn time they please.

[metmom]

Lots of misinformation and accusations and people demanding to know sources cause *they didn’t hear it*; as if it doesn’t exist just because they don’t know about it.

So I compiled the links for people needing to know more. They’re all from FR threads.

[ansel12]

"But there have been no convictions and the witness is where?"

But there have been convictions and raids going back back for 75 years.

The man in the picture on the walls? He was sentenced five months ago for performing and enforcing these "marriages"

The guy that was identified, that may have been in Arizona instead, he is finishing up his sentence for one of these "marriages"

The cult has suffered a number of setbacks and indictments recently, that is why this elite group of handpicked loyalists were sent to open up this new, exclusive compound.

We have them on the run and now we are currently inside one of the nests using DNA to establish paternity, this is good stuff, I love the smell of disappointed rapists in the morning,...it smells ...like....A RESCUE... OF CHILDREN.

[PennsylvaniaMom]

But, but...'bleeding the beast' is a tenet the FDLS find virtuous...

How intolerent of you./sarc.

[colorcountry]

Resty? Gone? She does more to enlightn FReepers about Mormonism than any other poster. I hate to see her go.

I will miss Elsie. I hope they are just cooling their heels.

[ansel12]

Great post, wonderful links.

[metmom]

I'd say since the State of Texas paid for that compound, they should have a right to visit it and see what's happening any damn time they please.

I agree. If you're willing to take the government's money and be on the dole, it SHOULD come with strings attached.

I don't see where anyone has a Constitutional right to be supported by the government.

You want government hand outs? Answer to them.

You don't want government interference? Support yourself.

[lucysmom]

What not fair is to allow young men and women to make their own decisions when 'there is so much that they need to equip themselves with in this day and age'. This is exactly why divorce, abortion, STD's, homosexuality, pedophilia and the like are rampant. People who are ill-equipped are darned sure making exactly those decisions every day because of logic just like that. Many more multitudes of adult women and young girls are suffering far more from this mindset than anyone in an FLDS compound.

First, I doubt that you, or I know how much these women are suffering. If its true that they are taught to shut off their emotions from birth, then its possible that even they don't know how much they're suffering.

Second, if you believe in the Christian God, then you believe He created us with free will. How can you defend a cult headed by a man who would take away from human beings what God meant them to have?

We fallible human beings make mistakes. God knew we were going to make mistakes and bring suffering on ourselves in the process of living and exercising our free will and yet he allowed it anyway. Why do you suppose that is?

[Colofornian]

Killing is distasteful but God commanded the Israelites to kill on a number of occasions. Your absolutist view would have all that is distasteful be interpreted as sin. Your absolutist logic would lead to a position where "Thou shall not kill" directly contradicts the sack of Jericho.

OK, once again you are confusing who is defending what. We didn’t start this exchange with you challenging an absolute statement I made. You keep wanting to prematurely shift the grounds to talk about my absolutes…and certainly we probably will.

But we’ve never really moved off your foundational ground because you keep insisting that polygamy, no matter how many wives or whatever form, is somehow God’s will and a “blessing” from God. And somehow, you think that in your last two comments by adding the word “personal view” in front of this absolute, it makes it less of an “absolute” statement.

If you would but concede that at least some forms of polygamy are against God’s will, I’m sure we could move on to all the things you think I believe about alcohol, killing and every other off-topic subject to want to raise to get the topic off of what you believe about polygamy—along with all the parallel analogies you want to raise about my beliefs.

Personally, I WONT call marrying more than one woman a Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God. because I can not find a single statement in the Bible that calls being married to more than one woman against God's will… What I'm showing is that you have yet to provide a single reference in the Bible where having more than one wife is a sin

Again, deal with the text. Yes or no, is having your heart led astray from God (Dt. 17:17) a…
“good” thing or a “bad” thing?
”healthy” thing or ”unhealthy” thing?
”edifying” and “holy” thing or a “sinful and “unholy” thing?

What, then, pray tell, according to Deut. 17:17, leads your heart astray from God? (Simple question. Do you think I could have gotten a simple straight answer out of you ever since you conceded once--and have since backtracked on that response?)

Since you continue to ignore the text, by continuing to assert that you cannot find a single statement in the Bible that calls being married to more than one woman against God’s will, I will re-assert the text: accumulating “many” wives qualifies as the exact behavior that leads a person’s heart astray from God.

In your feeble attempt to counter my personal view, you attempt to use only part of a scripture, out of context, and deliberately ignoring what is called a sin in the passage you cite.

What other context is there? We both agree that Dt. 17:17 talks about one husband, don’t we? We both agree it talks about “many wives,” don’t we? You wanna please explain how I could possibly begin to “esoterize” Deut 17:17 so that it’s no longer talking about one husband and many wives? (The cartwheels people will engage in to not have to backtrack from their original statements amazes me!) Now you accuse me of taking Deut 17:17 ”out of context” and engaging in “false logic.” Taxcontrol how can you possibly have a name dealing with anything economic when you somehow think…
…basic math (1 husband + < many wives) + a basic ethical phrase (“leads heart astray”) = tortuous context wrestling + false logic . No, the imbalance of how you equate all of this is on your end.

… I have already provided to you indirect reference to where God's prophet lists King David's blessings and having more than one wife is listed as one of those blessings.

Yes, and in response, I asked you a series of direct questions in which you refused to answer them. So I’ll ask them a second time:

Hosea’s wife, Gomer, was a prostitute. Yes or no, did God intentionally give Gomer to Hosea? (And since the answer is “yes,” does that make God out to be some divine pimp?) If you had a daughter, and if she became a prostitute, would you suddenly claim that God wasn’t the source of the gift of your daughter to your family? Ah, a question here: Solomon had 700 wives (1 Kings 11:3). Are you consistent here? Were these 700 wives “a blessing” from God? (And if your answer is “no,” where do you draw the line? Are 10 “wives” a “blessing” and the ensuing 690 are not? Pray tell, draw us a nice “legal-moral” line here)

Further, Nathan goes on to say that if David had asked, he would have been granted MORE.

First of all, let’s assume David was “sleeping” with these concubines. The women of 2 Sam. 12, which deals with Nathan, Nathan gives a prophetic utterance there that David’s concubines will sleep with someone close to him in his household. That prophecy comes true when Absalom does so (2 Sam. 16:21-22). Since these concubines were sleeping around with other members of the household (as did Bilhah of Jacob’s household—see Gen. 35:22), why do you believe that they were “faithful wives” to David?

Also, if David’s concubines and Jacob’s wife’s servant Bilhah could “sleep around” with multiple men of the same family as they did, do you also think God endorses and sanctions women who have multiple husbands? Do you now think that polyandry and any manner of tangling of men & women is something that God puts His signature to? And when Nathan says another concubine would come his way, was that to be “post-divorce” after these concubines slept with his son? (Oh, yeah, Biblical figures didn’t “divorce” concubines…so you’re telling me David would sleep with the same women his son Absalom did?) Doesn’t one of the books of Corinthians object to a man sleeping with his in-law to the point Paul says to turn him over to Satan?

Finally, why do you automatically assume that every concubine or slave girl in the Bible served as a sexual slave or “sex-mate” to the head of the household they lived in? (Please show me such a Bible verse that is so attached to every concubine in the Bible.)

So since you insist on your absolutist position, answer me this single question. How can a sinless God grant a blessing that is sin?

In the Middle East arising out of the Old Testament tradition, what “blessings” and "grace" really means is to favor somebody. David is the best example of God blessing, favoring or "gracing" someone...here he was guilty of adultery and manslaughter, yet was used by God, anyway due to God's grace, which is unearned and is NOT given to us based upon our worthiness...so I kind of find it hypocritical for other folks to convey that God worked through David despite his adultery & manslaughter but God wouldn't have been able to favor & use David if he had multiple wives and/or concubines...that seems to be talking out of both sides of their mouths. The fact is, we are all sinners who are recipients of God's grace...and He uses us, anyway. Otherwise, I don't believe Jesus would have been the direct descendent of David's partner in adultery, Bathsheba. God works despite our sin to cover up our sin with Jesus' blood so that one day we'll be sin-free. If He would have wanted sin-free creatures, then He wouldn't have needed to send the Son of God to die on a cross, and the Pharisees' outward righteousness would have been just "dandy" to represent God.

[P-Marlowe]

You know I'd be willing to bet that every one of those dead children in that eerie children's graveyard is still receiving Aid to Dependent Children.

The deaths are not reported, they just bury their dead in the cemetery and don't bother to notify the county.

I think the Child Abuse thing is just the tip of the iceberg. I think before it is over we are going to see a lot of people going to jail for welfare fraud and maybe ever murder.

The fruit of polygamy is poisonous. Joseph Smith is still haunting us all from the grave. The fruit of that demonic revelation called Doctrine and Covenants 132 is ripening on the vine.

[DoughtyOne]

My first inclination that CPS could be problematic was an article in Reader’s Digest twenty to thirty years ago. In that article a case in Northern Europe was related. In that case a child was removed from a home without the parents knowing anything was up until the child was gone. This wasn’t their only child either, and the other kids were never removed from the home.

The child in question was about three years old at the time. Those parents spent years just trying to find out where the child was. The kid was something like 9 to 14 years old when they finally found them and were allowed to start supervised visits.

That was a problem that could never be corrected. The family’s sanctity was broken, without there ever being any verified problem whatsoever.

Even at that time, I wondered how it would happen, but I knew we would get it here in time. I haven’t heard of anything this bad in our nation, but I have seen CPS work their magic, and they wield God-like power when it comes to their children.

And don’t kid yourself folks, your children are their children any time they say so. They have the full force of the law behind them. You don’t stand a chance, and neither do your children if they get the urge to mess with you/them.

I appreciate your comments, and the links.

I apprecizate you mentioning that folks don’t have to approve of criminality, to want things to be handled by the book. It’s when we relax our demand that things be handled by the book, that we expose ourselves to the most serious jeopardy.

Take care.

Nice response and I appreciated it...

[ansel12]

"Ansel, it’s my perception that women married much earlier as a practice two to three hundred years ago."

Here is a chart on those figures. But be sure to also look at similar information in post 189.

http://books.google.com/books?id=xoG61EFA8EwC&pg=PA400&lpg=PA400&dq=%22tables+8.4++Some+Proximate+Determinants+of+fertility%22&source=web&ots=1nwDB9miFO&sig=ZqsN5JRhLBc61zZvIcz_jMae6Cg&hl=en#PPA401,M1

[DoughtyOne]

Well, if anyone’s life is to be messed with, it would seem to me the perps would be the ones. I agree with your additional comments. Thank you.