FLDS women seek Texas governor's help

Deseret News ^ | April 13, 2008 | Nancy Perkins

[claudiustg]

SAN ANGELO — A Texas judge on Sunday ordered law enforcement officials to immediately confiscate all cell phones in the possession of FLDS women and children now housed in temporary quarters here. "I just called to say, hi. They are about to collect the phones, I think," one soft-spoken FLDS woman said during a telephone call to another member of the Fundamentalist LDS Church who was outside of the shelter. "I don't like what they're doing."

Several of the women inside the shelters spoke by cell phone to the Deseret News on Saturday to describe the living conditions there. Children could be heard crying in the background of each conversation. The News published an article on Sunday, quoting the women who complained there was no privacy and that their children were getting sick.

FLDS faithful outside the shelter are convinced Sunday's court order is a direct result of the women speaking to the newspaper.

"This is nothing more than retaliation of Child Protective Services to punish those who were disclosing what is really happening behind the walls of this concentration camp," said Don, an FLDS member who asked that his last name not be used. "These are my family members."

[najida]

There’s also ego too.....I can’t imagine being part of this and not recording trophies (ie wives and kids).

[PennsylvaniaMom]

the FDLS routinely over multiple generations has broken the laws of the United States. It has also routinely broken the laws of the states it convenes in. Apparently UT, CO and AZ turned, as you suggest, a blind eye to statutory rape; bigamy; kidnapping; welfare fraud; physical abuse. Using your logic (don’t interfere w/ ‘their’ religious freedoms) the problem grew from a few dysfunctional families to an imbred cult of thousands. Fortunately the powers that be in TX don’t turn away...TX is stuck cleaning up 50 years of others states inaction.

[muawiyah]

The alpha-male, female sex slave, pedophilia structure here is quite a common one throughout most of human history. Not that it was "right" or moral, but so many people were wrapped up in it they thought it might even be normal or biologically determined.

Unfortunately for all the participants, the system denies fundamental freedoms to the members, particularly the weak and helpless.

Frankly, it's not civilized behavior, and whether it's practiced by a barbaric cult in the wilderness or your friendly neighborhood street gang it must be eradicated.

[Wallace T.]

And don’t use the ‘polygamy is moral or ancient’ argument.

Polygamy is immoral, in violation of the Seventh Commandment as well as the New Testament, specifically the Apostle Paul's statement: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband." (I Corinthians 7:2-3) To deny that it is ancient is to ignore history.

It (polygamy) wouldn’t happen naturally, it only can happen via manipulation and isolation.

That is an unsupportable statement, inasmuch as the writings of early Christian writers attest to the existence of the practice among the Jews, the Gnostics, and the Persians in the second through fourth centuries, AD. None of these groups were cultic or isolated as the FLDS is.

No woman from the outside enters into this, only those bred into it are involved, and only because their rights to free will have been stripped away.

Free will is not a right, but rather a condition of existence. Many Christian theologians have argued that the human will is not entirely free but seriously corrupted by sin. However, they would have agreed that responsibility for actions rest upon the individual person. Members of an isolated group such as the FLDS are not exposed to a plurality of opinions or encouraged to escape from group think. But the same argument can be made against public schools, especially in the more liberal areas of the country, where the teaching is onesidedly Marxist and secular humanist and where the teachers use dialectic means (and sometimes drugs such as Ritalin) to encourage group think and discourage "un-PC" thought or behavior.

The same arguments were used during the times predating the civil war (right down to slaves being biblical)

The antebellum slaveowners needed the full force of local, State, and Federal governments to prevent the slaves from escaping the plantations. In this case, the state and local authorities are forcing them off the FLDS "plantation" against their desires.

[muawiyah]

Perhaps "sales records"?

Everything is possible with these guys.

Several years back I checked into the backgrounds of the "officers" in a NGO "recognized" by the United Nations.

This group purports to represent aboriginal people worldwide.

Most of the "officers" belonged to a single cult into all the practices you find in the FLDS.

No, they weren't Moslems!

[Wallace T.]

So all of that high flown language wasn't all that important to the good Justice was it.

Harlan Stone was not consistent in his support for civil liberties. Neither was Felix Frankfurter, admired for his support of civil liberties. Frankfurter authored the 1940 decision to compel Jehovah's Witnesses to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

[Osage Orange]

Most of the "officers" belonged to a single cult into all the practices you find in the FLDS.

Well....spill the beans.

[greyfoxx39]

NOTHING the government will do here will be good enough and NOTHING that the group has done will be bad enough. You nailed that one.

It's pretty sad, too.

I sure would hope that someone would take some action if I was being held against my will, instead of being so worried about their own rights and freedoms that they tie the hands of the only entity who could legally do anything about it.

It seems that the only other options are to ignore it and let it continue. Or vigilante justice. Are those the better options?

I haven't seen those condemning the government offer any better suggestions on what to do about this group.

From Najida:
Other than returning everyone home and just letting it continue. There are those who seem to side with the peds, perves and philanderers on many a thread. Secret wishes? Hellifino. /sarc

You ladies have pretty well nailed it! Welcome to THE NEW AND IMPROVED FRee Republic version of political correctness....TIE THE HANDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE NAME OF "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS", TO HELL WITH THE RIGHTS OF THE VICTIMS.

[muawiyah]

Have done so in the past. I’d need to update my information ~ which involves tracking down every single “officer”’s biography on the net ~ no small task.

[najida]

Yep. It’s not a ‘religion’ I see many women wanting to join. Oh golly! Is THAT why they have to manipulate circumstances?

[Marie2]

“they can not be held for long.”

On this point I agree, and were I a judge I would consider the reasonableness of the length of time the police need. A sudden influx of 500 or so people could overload the system for a few days, I think. Not for months, though.

[najida]

Do you even remotely understand the concept of brainwashing?
So, since they want to stay, it must be a religion? Sounds like you think it’s all hunky dory cuz the girls ain’t runnin’.

I mean, I said it before, but horses will return to a burning barn out of fear of the dark ‘out there’. Same with these women. Their individuality has been removed and replaced with a fear of freedom.

Pretty frickin’ ironic.

[Wallace T.]

TX is stuck cleaning up 50 years of others states inaction.

An unofficial motto of the Lone Star State is "Don't Mess With Texas"!

The only way to end the FLDS is to ban the sect. The problem with banning the FLDS sect is the area of freedom of conscience, religion, and speech issue. By the same train of thought that bans the FLDS, we should also shut down all Marxist and racist groups and the militant varieties of Islam, along with anti-patriotic groups such as the Mennonites, Amish, and Jehovah's Witnesses, as they practice types of group think and, in the case of Marxist, Muslim militant, and racist groups, advocate a radical change in our society and government. Communists and militant Muslims pose a far greater threat to society than the FLDS. The trillions of dollars and thousands of lives spent in fighting their overseas threat contrast with their continued existence in the domestic arena.

[najida]

Yeah,
Spill the beans!

[muawiyah]

I'm sure you can get access to my posts way back in 1998 or thereabouts ~ names named. Like I said I would need to update it. But if you want to do it just look for Church of First Born with reference to delegates for NGOs recognized by the United Nations.

You'll find 'em ~ probably in no time.

Could toss in the word "aboriginal" to help in the search..

[najida]

The issue you keep side stepping is that the members are not there by will, but there by birth and isolation, intimidation, indoctrination and fear. It’s a perverts dream and it is slavery, in every sense of the word.

It’s using the term ‘religion’ so folks like you can make nice speeches protecting it. But it is still slavery. And no, I don’t see women on buses from all over going to Texas to be ‘converted’. So how can it be a religion if the only way it gets female members is by breeding and breaking their spirits?

[nowandlater]

The only solution is to institute the death penalty of this behavior and to strictly and swiftly enforce it.

[greyfoxx39]

So,
If I want to found a pseudo-christian religion, whose tenants include us 50 plus females having sex with boys young as 13, that's OK?

If our structure is such that everyone born and living in our community believes our sexual proclivities are the will of God, that is OK?

If the structure is such that all normal familial bonds including parent/child are broken, that 'spouses' can be taken away and given to other spouses via my declarations, it's OK?

If I can have as many boys as we wish as our husbands, no matter how young, for pretty much sexual and breeding practices, that is OK?

And lastly, if we cut them off from the outside world, deny them their basic rights to be individuals and keep them afraid enough they'll never seek to leave, that is OK?

Ya know, I think I'm on to something here......(Girls, ooooohhhh girls! Come here, I have a plan)./sarc (I mean, this may find a 'use' for the surplus 'lost' boys from these places.)

  My, crickets chirping.....no rebuttal.

I can't imagine why? Excellent post!

[Wallace T.]

Do you even remotely understand the concept of brainwashing?

I am aware of brainwashing. I am also aware that the accusation of brainwashing is often used as a "wax nose" to describe teaching or behavior to which one is opposed. There are legitimate cases of brainwashing, as happened to our POWs in Communist hands in the Korean War. However, one could argue that a more common victim of brainwashing is a child in a liberal, anti-religious home environment in a liberal community because he would be exposed to nothing but Marxist, secular humanist, and anti-religious thought at both home and school. That such children often grow up to be amoral and brain dead could be used as evidence that the Feds should overthrow the schools and social order in places like Marin County, California, or Key West, Florida.

When government goes beyond its appropriate role as enforcer of laws designed to protect individual liberty and property, the danger of abuse increases, as history shows. “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.” (George Washington)

[CindyDawg]

Good point.