Well, silly me. I thought they lived in their own houses scattered through out the countryside and other communities.
It's not the same kind of isolation and you know it.
Posted on 04/09/2008 8:05:24 PM PDT by metmom
SAN ANGELO, Texas — Teenage girls, often younger than 16, were required to have sex in the soaring white temple after they were married in sect-recognized unions at a polygamist compound in West Texas, according to court documents unsealed Wednesday.
The temple "contains an area where there is a bed where males over the age of 17 engage in sexual activity with female children under the age of 17," said an affidavit quoting a confidential informant who left the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
If I did something like this against my wife's will, she would probably cut my balls off and feed them to the cats.
Enough said...
Some one had it right earlier your conversation on this thread is not adding up!
What did the people on this sect’s farm ever do to you?
So, your personal standard is that we have to wait until we are personally wronged to say that racism is wrong? That most of what we've seen of this cult is wrong?
Sorry, I'm not waiting until then. It's wrong. It's wrong no matter who does it.
Wrong.
Period.
Wow! I didn't know the sexual abuse of underaged children was up for "debate." What it's going to be next? A cannibal break-off group from Papua New Guinea starts practicing its "religion" which it's practiced for "thousands of years" and you're going to start spouting your ethnocentric accusations of multiculturalism in favor of your sanctified cultural cannibalism?
Yeah, we can hear your multicultural sermon now, Hunble, in that case: To anybody objecting to cannibalistic practices, you would intone, You are making a judgment about human digestion, using your own life experience and religious teachings. These are not the same as their beliefs. (And then I suppose you would introduce the notion that physical abuse or perhaps the ancient tribal practice of head-shrinking was up for "debate"...we wouldn't want to be "ethnocentric" or anything)
(Well, it's nice to know what you picked up from the liberal profs of the university campus you went to)
What other facts would be needed?
Rape, Statutory Rape, Assault and Battery. Not just one report but hundreds of instances.
If there is a hell the perps will certainly end up there. In the meantime we shall hope they rot in prison where they will be treated as the scum they are and probably killed by the other prisoners.
Thank you PennMom. 100% agreed. How stunningly idiotic on the part of Hunble. (We all have blinders, but some folks are stunningly clueless--and willingly blind)
Many of the ages listed below of actual LDS plural marriages came from one of B. Carmon Hardy's book, which also mentions Miles Park Romney. One of the keys of taking the time to read what follows is that you'll see how young many of the LDS wives were, at times the age discrepancy, and the fact that the fLDS learned many of their family relationship lessons from the late 19th century and early 20th century Mainstream Mormon church. (We need to remember that fLDS were still LDS in the 1930s.
Note how young the 19th century Mormon wives were!
The book, Changing World, p. 226: The early Mormon leaders certainly did allow their young people to marry at an early age. Mosiah Hancock was only 11 years old when he was "sealed" to a "young girl." According to his journal, he was "born in Kirtland, Ohio, on April the 9th, 1834." ("The Mosiah Hancock Journal," typed copy, p.1). On pages 20 and 21 of the same journal, he recorded: On about January 10, 1846, I was privileged to go in the temple and receive my washings and annointings. I was sealed to a lovely young girl named Mary, who was about my age, but it was with the understanding that we were not to live together as man and wife until we were 16 years of age. The reason that some were sealed so young was because we knew that we would have to go West and wait many a long time for another temple.
According to Stanley P. Hirshon, who wrote a biography of Brigham Young: "Make haste and get married," Remy heard Young preach. "Let me see no boys above sixteen and girls above fourteen unmarried." ... In 1857 The New York Times, reporting the sealings to old men of two girls aged ten and eleven, estimated that most girls married before they were fourteen.... Troskolawsski knew one bishop who was sealed to four of his nieces, the youngest thirteen years old....On August 1, 1856, he put on the stagecoach for Ohio twelve-year-old Emma Wheat, who was being forced into a marriage she detested." (The Lion of the Lord, pp.126-27).
Changing World, p. 225: The shortage of women was so great that some of the men were marrying girls who were very young. Fanny Stenhouse stated:
"That same year, a bill was brought into the Territorial Legislature, providing that boys of fifteen years of age and girls of twelve might legally contract marriage, with the consent of their parents or guardians!" (Tell It All, 1875, p.607).
According to http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm, Stenhouse was "at one time had been a firm believer in Mormonism and had even allowed her husband to take another wife. She wrote: "It would be quite impossible, with any regard to propriety, to relate all the horrible results of this disgraceful system.... Marriages have been contracted between the nearest of relatives; and old men tottering on the brink of the grave have been united to little girls scarcely in their teens; while unnatural alliances of every description, which in any other community would be regarded with disgust and abhorrence, are here entered into in the name of God...It is quite a common thing in Utah for a man to marry two or even three sisters.... I know also another man who married a widow with several children; and when one of the girls had grown into her teens he insisted on marrying her also... and to this very day the daughter bears children to her step-father, living as wife in the same house with her mother!"(Tell It All, 1874, pages 468-69)
Per researcher George D. Smith (Source: "Nauvoo Polygamists", George D. Smith, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1994, p. ix, as found at http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm) discovered that of "a list of 153 men who took plural wives in the early years of the Mormon Church. When we examined this list, we noted that two of the young girls were only thirteen years old when they were lured into polygamy. Thirteen girls were only fourteen years old. Twenty-one were fifteen years old, and fifty-three were sixteen years old when they were secretly enticed into this degrading lifestyle."
"I shall not seal the people as I have done. Old Father Alread brought three young girls 12 & 13 years old. I would not seal them to him. They would not be equally yoked together...Many get their endowments who are not worthy and this is the way that devils are made." (Source: Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, 5:58.)
Examples of real young girls being married off in 19th century Mormon families: Judson Tolman, 19, married first wife Sarah Holbrook, 13, in 1846 before adding 4 more wives; James Francis Johnson married Rozina Richmond, 13 (perhaps 14) in 1876...then J.F. Johnson took on another wife in 1894 after the so-called "manifesto" supposedly "ending" polygamy--to Clara Barber who was 16--maybe 17. J.F. Johnson was in his late 30s at that time he married Barber.
24 yo Arthur Clark married 14 yo Mary Rasmussen as the second of four wives; Charles Richardson married 14 yo first wife Sarah Adams in 1882--his third wife (Carolina Jacobson) was probably 16 & he was 30. (He had 4 wives overall)
Thomas Chamberlain II actually double-married two 17 yo on the same date in 1873...and then added on a 15 yo (Ann Carling) in 1875 followed by her sister--also 15--three years later.
Abel Hardy married a 15 yo (Maria Cooley) in 1896 and then post-manifesto, married Cynthia Porter (16) in 1901. (Hundreds of 16 yo LDS girls were married off as plural wives in the 19th century and early 20th century).
Notice how the initial LDS leaders set the terrible example for fLDS leaders by being in their 40s or late 30s (or beyond re: later LDS "prophets")
Just look at the compulsory "wifehood" of underaged teens: Brigham Young, when he was in his 40s, wedded 15-year-old Clarissa Decker, 16-year-old Ellen Rockwood (when Young was 44); and 16-year-old Lucy Bigelow (when Young was 45).
Its initial "prophet"--Joseph Smith--promised salvation to the household of the Kimball Klan, and what do you know? 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball, who initially hated polygamy, was part of Smith's harem. Smith also added to his long list of wives 16-year-old Presendia Huntington; 17-year-old Mary Rollins; 17-year-old Patty Bartlett; and 17-year-old Sarah Ann Whitney. (Smith allegedly began his pre-marital affair with Fanny Alger when she was 16; Smith was the legal guardian of her).
As for LDS 19th century old men: "Joseph E. Robinson recalled that President Lorenzo Snow told him that he had father a child in his eighty-eighth year." (source B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, p. 93)
Even the LDS "prophet" who posted a manifesto to "end" polygamy added a wife in 1897 when 90-year-old Wilford Woodruff married 49-year-old Lydia Mountford.
According to Changing World, p. 225, Mormon leaders were "evidently worried that the missionaries would take the best women." Heber C. Kimball, a member of the First Presidency, admonished: "I say to those who are elected to go on missions, ... remember they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You under stand that. Amen" (Original source: Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.256).
Author Stanley P. Hirshon wrote: Kimball always kept an eye out for romance. "Brethren," he instructed some departing missionaries, "I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake" (The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30).
No wonder that the Republicans In 1856 the Republican Party made the defeat of polygamy a key plank in its first national platform, characterizing it alongside slavery as one of the "twin relics of barbarism." The federal government soon criminalized the practice and then in effect outlawed membership in the Mormon Church until it would agree to give up polygamy....The reaction of the Mormon Church to this new wave of persecution was, initially, to take refuge in secrecy once again. [Source: Mormon-owned Deseret News, Jan. 6, 2008]
Note the lopsided ages that sometimes occurred with LDS polygamous arrangements:
42 yo Joseph Bentley's third wife was 16 yo (maybe 15) Maud Taylor...Bentley married her in 1901 in Mexico (post the mythical manifesto "ending" polygamy) . Marriner Merrill took a 15 or 16 yo as his second wife in 1856 (Cryne); then another 15 yo (Almira) in 1865 when he was 33; then another 15 yo<>/b> (Maria) in 1867 when he was 35; then 3 more wives between 1885 -1889! I notice that a "Turley" has recently been named as a key LDS historian. (I wonder if he is a descendent from Edward Turley, 32, who married second wife Annie Martineau when she was 15 in Mexico (and of course it was post "no polygamy" manifesto in 1901!). Philip Hurst, when he was 32, married Elizabeth Wilcox (probably 17--maybe 16). She was wife #2 of 4 he married. When he was 37, he married Rebecca Sanderson (probably 15) in 1873.
Like Father (LDS), like Son (fLDS): Both Thought 'Above the Law'
The problem, simply put, is that the lesson the fLDS learned from the LDS 95 years to over a century ago, was to consider yourselves "above the law." Brigham Young said: "If I had forty wives in the United States, they did not know it, and could not substantiate it, neither did I ask any lawyer, judge, or magistrate for them. I live above the law, and so do this people" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p.361).
ping
both have root in Jos Smith (who himself was married to 14 yr old Helen Marr Kimball)...the FLDS are actually practicing Orthodox Mormonism, and doctrinally, differ only on this and a few other points
I doubt pfpj knew hitler either
Well, silly me. I thought they lived in their own houses scattered through out the countryside and other communities.
It's not the same kind of isolation and you know it.
Where does it say that? I just reread the article about three times looking for that comment and it doesn't show up anywhere.
I wonder why.....
Actually no, but I HAVE been to a polygamist compound. In fact more than one.
BTW, because it happens to inner city teens, does that make it right somehow?
I am NOT McCain's mom, (even though I blame the Olympics scandal on the Mormons.)
:-)
Just like in the hood.
HMMMM, all very interesting. I have a question, though. Since approximately half of all births are male, and there are over 500 female members involved here with , so far, only three males, what has happened to all the male members. Where are they? Who are they? I’ve not really heard anything about them. What happens when a girl gives birth to a son?
Good Lord.
I’ve received an education of the kind of thinking that exists around us that I had never conceived of before.
Absolutely unbelievable the depth of depravity that exists and the depth of depravity of someone who would defend this, in the name of *religion* no less.
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