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Hep me out here.

I have fired the .45 (11.4 MM in Euro-talk) from a variety of platforms, and also the 10MM (which in American is a .40cal). The 10MM does have, shall we say, a bit "stouter" recoil. If this were to be a 100# person's first pistol, I'd say it could be a problem ... but the same might be true for the .45. Does anyone know the exact differences in ballistics between the two rounds? It seems to me the major point is that you can stack more 10MM in a magazine.

Various state police agencies used to start rookies off with .22 automatics, and when they could actually hit something on a regular basis, they would be moved on to heavier calibers. Whatever happened to that idea?

NATO obviously feels hitting something with one out of fifteen of their anemic 9MM loads is preferable to missing things with 7 rounds from a more manly weapon. Maybe after you can hit something with the 9MM, they should issue a .45 ... or at least issue real ammo for the 9MM?

10mm is only .40 in terms of measured caliber. The .40S&W caliber is now commonly used by police departments, and could be considered the “10mm short.” They are not interchangeable, to say the least.

The FBI and other FLEAs did purchase a run of 10mm MP5 subguns, but they had a lot of problems. In the vernacular, they were called “MP five and dimes.” I don’t know if they are still in use.

The 10mm fired from the Glock pistol has been very successful. 15 rounds of the stout 10mm hollowpoint must be one of the mose powerful combos of stopping power and capacity in any pistol.

Comparing 9mm to .45 is really two separate discussions. If you are a soldier restricted to FMJ hardball ammo, then yes, the 9mm is much less effective than the .45, even considering greater mag capacity. The 9mm hardballs tend to zip through bad guys.

But in the civilian world where we can buy terrific hollowpoint +P ammo, 9mm is a pretty effective round. Coupling this greater effectiveness (compared to 9mm hardball) with less recoil and greater mag capacity makes the 9mm a good choice for civilians. Especially if the wife might have to use it.

The 10MM does have, shall we say, a bit "stouter" recoil.

.....I have a Colt 10mm "Delta Elite".....

.....it's on a 1911 frame (.45 cal).....

.....on this frame with similar recoil springs it gives a bit more "kick" than models built from the ground up for the 10mm cartridge.....

.....I personally love the 10mm, and btw.....

.....the 10mm came first.....

.....they cut it down to .40 cal to lesson recoil for civi use.....

Somebody help me out here. All my posts seem to be registering in the color green. How do I turn that off? That's never happened to me before now.

Okay: First off, the 10mm is not the same thing as a 40. The forty is called the shorty forty because it is actually a shortened 10mm case because the full size round was beating the frames of the pistols to death and doing a job on the sensibilities of folks that fired the round. Also, the 10mm isn't what you'd call a widely available round and neither is the 40. As opposed to the 45 and 9mm which can be found everywhere on the planet and in great quanities. Maybe there is a reason for that? Anyway, that's useful in logistics (my secondary military specialty) when you run short and maybe have to make a local purchase. We used to do that all the time for various types of goods.

Perhaps the most spectacular example of local purchase is the first Gulf War when Special Forces discovered that wheeling across the desert in the HUMVEE was hazardous to your health because only Americans drove them so every sniper and jihadi with an RPG was looking for those. But in a Land Rover, Range Rover, or Toyota Land Cruiser you could be mistaken for a wandering mullah or imam and shooting at those could make you wind up in hell. So here went the SOCOM guys buying up the entire inventories of whole dealerships and screaming across the desert in these fully loaded (pun) luxury land yachts with the CD's blaring inside and the A/C on full blast.

Back on topic. The 10mm is inadequate in so many practical ways but not in the man stopping department. Too bad that's not enough. The Hague accords aren't going to change so bullet configuration is going to remain FMJ and the 10mm is far more likely to over-penetrate than either the 45 or the 9mm, bringing innocent lives into harm's way. The result is every politician's nightmare collateral damage.

Better to use a suitable platform like the USP or H&K45 both of which use a mechanical system to reduce the felt recoil. It's a DA first shot which beats the 1911 all the way around for making sure the shot is an intended action and that reduces that ~shudder~ dreaded collateral damage.

I agree with the idea of starting folks out on a 22 and working up. I use that whenever I have a novice in one of my ccw classes(I've been an NRA certified Instructor for about 20 years). The truth remains thusly: In a FMJ configuration bigger bullets are needed for a decisive stop. The round that meets the need best all around including the militarily critical area of logistics is clearly the 45 ACP.

THe 45 doesn't even come close to a 10mm. If you are purely talking about muzzle energies, the 45 is pathetic. About 400 lb-ft of muzzle energy for a 45ACP and nearly 700 lb-ft for a 10mm. Now, a 9mm +P luger gives you about 390-440 lb-ft of energy. So all those guys out there that like to bash the 9mm probably don't understand muzzle energies.

But, in the 45s defense, there is evidence to suggest that muzzle energy isn't a perfect indicator of stopping power. for instance, the 45 seems to do much better in the real world than ballistic data would predict.

But you asked about ballistics, not real life gun fights. AS far as balistics are concerned, the 45 is really pathetic. Well, not as pathetic as a 38 special. But not very good. Not very good at all.