Posted on 04/06/2008 5:27:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
| To: Enosh
I bet you even jump your mother! |
Watch it; or else the ADMIN MOD will tell you...
Knock it off!
You have learned your Founders ways quite well; Grasshopper!
You have learned your Founders ways quite well; Grasshopper!
I am X-Presbyterian and I witness first hand 18 years before I ever knew about the LDS!
The Prophet Joseph Smith only validated what I already knew!
Here is your CONTEXT!!!
To: Enosh
I bet you even jump your mother!
245 posted on 04/17/2008 10:44:34 AM PDT by restornu (They allow this little quibble over scripture to blind them!) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 237 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]
Also you have violate FR posting guildline ELSIE by cross thread bring Joseph Smith and Polygamy from one thread to another thread to so you could continue stirring the pot with post#137!
ENOCH:from post #237
My comment was directed at Resty's attempt to make this a closed thread. It was the same thing as when NYer posts something like, "Catholic Good, Protestant Bad - (Catholic Caucus)" When she does that, I jump on her too.
I think it’s time to cool this off. Please think this over - the forum isn’t benefited by endless flame wars.
I have learned for myself that mormonism is not true....
So has Joseph Smith!!
________________________________________
The false prophet Joseph smith soon learnt that he was wrong and had lied to all his followers...
The second he died and landed in Hell...
Why do I need to ‘quote mine’ or ‘take out of context’ Elder Oakes speech when I provided you the link to a MORMON site with the complete context?????? Is that the best you’ve got???? A link to another Mormon site seeking to defend the speech and engaging in yet more lying trying to defend the indefensible????? Come on DU you can do better than that..tsk tsk tsk
You really should pay more attention to Free Republic…this issue has been discussed by MORMONS (as opposed to anti-Mormons) who hate the practice therefore affirming it to be a true practice. Let’s start with this one: “Yes I'm LDS. Now should I stop considering myself to be LDS just because I think the LDS church should tell the truth. Or does the title "LDS" only belong to those who think its OK for the church leadership to deceive and lie?” Or how about here on this one: ” I’m a Mormon High Priest so be careful how you stereotype us Mormon. I’m not proud of my church’s poor track record on being honest. One phrase I learned as a missionary as an excuse to being dishonest was ‘milk before meat’. That doesn’t work in the internet age and I’m trying to repent of my past ignorant sins of omission. I’d like to suggest for the rest of my fellow Mormons that there is great comfort and freedom in repenting of the bondage that the sin of being deceptive on church history brings. What works now is to tell the truth, period.” Now here’s an HONEST MORMON unlike you Delphi. So I have respect for this guy, you I have none. You haven’t earned it because you STILL LIE.
More evidence: LDS Robert Millet instructing his students on presenting ‘milk before meat’ and don’t answer questions, answer questions that ‘should’ have been asked. What utter arrogance. I see why you are such a pompous jerkoff. You probably studied under this guy.
Another MORMON SITE discussing this issue: “Let me preface this post by saying I am an active believing member of the Church (card carrying) and love Elder Oaks and the church. But I think it is good to understand that misleading/deceiving is a fairly common happening in the scriptures and in the church.” Well, well, well another honest Mormon unlike SOME people I could name. Face it Delphi you now live in an information/internet age. Nobody needs to quote mine when you have links to the direct source in complete context. And of where there are testimonies from other Mormons such as the link I referenced in my previous post you mock that individual. That was just one example try reading more Here but I guess testimonies are mocked when they expose your own lying which I caught you at. This is why you are not worthy to debate. You LIE, deliberately, and when called on it – you STILL LIE, deliberately, and when other Mormons active or ex comment on this reality within the LDS you mock them. You have no credibility whatsoever. About as much credibility as pond scum.
P.S. Not to mention that you AGAIN commit the Pious Fraud Argument.
Let me make this simple for you, the Journal Of Discourses (JOD) is not church cannon because it contains stuff like this, that was Brigham Young's opinion, and while he had a lot of great opinions, it's not cannon, it's not doctrine and it's not what we believe.
Oh this is good. Unfortunately for you Brigham Young refutes this theory of yours. In 1870 Young wrote in The Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 95 the following: “I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom, as I know the road to my office. It is just as plain and easy. The Lord is in our midst. He teaches the people continually. I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.”. Now in spite of your very lame attempt again to defend the indefensible, here is an even bigger issue for you. Now since Young did say those words above (verifiable here from BYU Library, be sure and click on p. 95 as proof against your ‘quote mining’ accusation) then it is evident that HE viewed his sermons as Scripture, not opinion. Its interesting that you view Young as a former ‘living prophet’ but then discount his words! So, you decide do you DU who is and is not the ‘living prophets’ within the LDS????? Okay, if Young was not a prophet then and His words are not Scripture why is he revered as such??? For you this gets even worse: In October 1976, twelfth Mormon President, Spencer W. Kimball branded Young’s teaching regarding the Adam-God Doctrine as false doctrine.
We denounce [the Adam-God] theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine” (Conference Report, October 1-3, 1976, p. 115). So if Young’s words were not Scripture, but mere opinion, and if Kimball denounced him as teaching false doctrine, which would ergo conclude that a preacher of false doctrine would also be a false prophet……where does that leave the LDS with its ‘living prophets’ and ‘restored gospel’????
Just digging a hole for yourself here DU – here’s a shovel.
Don't accuse me of quote mining unless you can prove it!
Pssst – I DID! LOL!! That long treatise trying to defend the indefensible again are we???? I’ll just do this again: My argument Post #2317 demonstrating you did indeed quote mine in In Your Post #2133 and again in this one! LOL! Just another Argument by Half-Truth or Suppressed Evidence again. And since we’ve been down this road before and you merely babbled in this post proving nothing and merely reinforcing my rebuke you commit the Argument by Selective Observation fallacy, better said the arguer overlooks arguments he does not like. May I say: Tough rocks.
U Said: You were caught red-handed. And still you lie yet again…..You, Caught me? What a steaming pile of Bovine excrament.
Ah, the Argument by Pig-headedness again. “Refusing to accept something after everyone else thinks it is well enough proved.” LOL. Well, you believe in Joseph Smith who believed men dressed liked quakers lived on the Moon, need I say more????
The meanings of these words is easy to find: mia: "Mia is a Feminine particle meaning One or first, or the first one of"…
Back to the corruption of the Greek text again eh? What? You missed my post #3503 correcting you? Why am I not surprised????
I will give you this DU – you are doing a great job reinforcing my belief the LDS is a CULT of the highest magnitude. So far with my discussions with you I have seen:
1. False prophecies excused away.
2. Occultic connections ignored and excused away.
3. Sexual deviancy not only condoned, but commended. Along with Adultery, I’ve now seen spousal abuse, and child abuse defended. I have now also seen the defense of polygamy and also pedophilia – all excused away.
4. Lying not only encouraged, but deception and ‘milk before meat’ is actually taught, and obviously actively engaged in by you.
5. Corruption of and mangling of NT Greek. This in spite of ‘in so far as it [Bible] is translated correctly’ when the only mistranslation is coming from the LDS! More Textual Criticism Here.
6. Arrogance and condescension even when losing a debate.
I’m just scratching the surface here – great job Delphi – keep it up. The more you post the more people run from the LDS and that’s a GOOD THING. :)
The Prophet Mohammad only validated what the false prophet Joseph Smith already knew...
BTTT
Bring back Elsie!
Did Elsie go Bye Bye ???
OOOoooooooooooooo
:(
I'd never make it; extreme heights make me twitch. ;)
Yeah, and resty, too.
I hope it’s just cooling their heels some. They’re too valuable to have gone for good.
:(
I don’t know this Elsie but Rest always comes back:’) While we are waiting....anyone want to talk about what happened in court today?
“We’re a peaceful people,” Lucille Nielson said. Life on their 1,700-acre gated ranch “is very peaceful. You can feel the peace when you are there. Very loving. We raise our children in a loving environment.”
This is like something Michael Jackson would say...
The children are staying put until DNA tests have matched everyone up because of all the secrecy...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351780,00.html
Judge Orders Polygamist Sect’s Children to Remain in State Custody Pending DNA Tests
SAN ANGELO, Texas — The more than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing to sort out family relationships that have confounded welfare authorities, a judge ruled Friday.
State District Judge Barbara Walther heard 21 hours of testimony over two days before ruling that the children would be kept in custody while the state continues to investigate allegations of abuse stemming from the teachings of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
“This is but the beginning,” Walther said.
Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks, and the judge will determine whether they are moved into permanent foster care or can be returned to their parents. All hearings must be held by June 5.
Walther also ordered that all 416 children and parents be given genetic tests. Child welfare officials say they’ve had difficulty determining how the children and adults are related because of evasive or changing answers.
A mobile genetic lab will take samples Monday at the main shelter where children are being kept; parents will be able to submit samples Tuesday in Eldorado, closer to the ranch.
The custody case is one of the largest and most convoluted in U.S. history. The ruling capped two days of marathon testimony that sometimes descended into chaos as hundreds of lawyers for the children and parents competed to defend their clients in two large rooms linked by a video feed.
Attorneys popped up with objections in a courtroom and nearby auditorium, then queued up down the aisle to cross-examine witnesses in a mass hearing that frustrated attorneys and stretched the small-town court system.
The April 3 raid on the Yearning For Zion Ranch was prompted by a call made to a family violence shelter, purportedly by a 16-year-old girl who said her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. That girl has never been identified.
The state of Texas argued it should be allowed to keep the children because the sect’s teaching encourages girls younger than 18 to enter spiritual marriages with older men and produce as many children as possible. Its attorneys argued that the culture put all the girls at risk and potentially turned the boys into future predators.
A witness for the parents who was presented by defense lawyers as an expert on the FLDS disputed that the girls have no say in who they marry.
“I believe the girls are given a real choice,” said W. John Walsh. “Girls have successfully said, ‘No, this is not a good match for me,’ and they remained in good standing.”
But Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist who has studied children in cults, testified that the girls will not refuse marriages because they are indoctrinated to believe disobedience will lead to their damnation.
The renegade Mormon sect’s belief system “is abusive. The culture is very authoritarian,” he said.
Perry acknowledged that many adults at the ranch are loving parents and that the boys seemed emotionally healthy. When asked whether the belief system really endangered the older boys or young children, Perry said, “I have lost sleep over that question.”
He also conceded that the children, taught from birth to believe that contact with the outside world will lead to eternal damnation, would suffer if placed in traditional foster care.
“If these children are kept in the custody of the state, there would have to be exceptional and innovative programmatic elements for these children and their families,” he said. “The traditional foster care system would be destructive for these children.”
Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said the department believes the children will now be safe.
It’s not clear how quickly they might be moved from the coliseum and fairgrounds, where they are staying on cots, and into foster homes or other temporary housing. But they could be placed with family members if the department determines the children will be safe, Meisner said.
Four women testified Friday, and all said they were free to make their own choices. They also said they would do whatever it took to get their children returned to them.
“We’re a peaceful people,” Lucille Nielson said. Life on their 1,700-acre gated ranch “is very peaceful. You can feel the peace when you are there. Very loving. We raise our children in a loving environment.”
But the women also acknowledged that girls get married at ages younger than the state allows.
Some of the women bowed their heads when the judge issued her order to keep the children in state custody. They left the columned courthouse stoically, ignoring questions shouted by reporters.
They’ll face more hearings, and some could be required to take steps to prove to Child Protective Services that they should be allowed to regain custody.
Tim Edwards, a lawyer for four mothers, said the women would follow the judge’s ruling.
“We are going to comply with the orders of the court; we’re going to cooperate with CPS and their requirements and do everything within our power to turn the situation around,” he said.
Texas Rangers also are investigating a Colorado woman as a “person of interest” related to calls made to a family crisis center. Police arrested Rozita Swinton, 33, on Wednesday in Colorado Springs on a misdemeanor charge of false reporting to authorities for a call she made in late February.
Authorities did not say whether a call by Swinton might be the one that triggered the raid.
But officers who searched her home found items suggesting a possible connection between Swinton and calls regarding a compound owned by FLDS in Arizona and one in Eldorado, the Texas Department of Public Safety said late Friday. The items weren’t identified.
“The information, evidence and a statement obtained from Swinton by the Texas Rangers while they were in Colorado will be forwarded to state and federal prosecutors for their review and determination as to whether Swinton will be charged with a criminal offense,” the statement said.
Swinton’s whereabouts were unknown, and it wasn’t known whether she had an attorney. A phone number for her in Colorado Springs was disconnected.
Authorities in Colorado confirmed Swinton has a history of making false reports.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2003787/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2003838/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2003823/posts
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