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Police in rising arms race with crooks
Associated Press ^ | March 23, 2008 | KEITH RIDLER

Posted on 03/23/2008 8:55:39 AM PDT by decimon

BOISE, Idaho - The 30-year-old mother of three jumped from her disabled SUV following a chase, holding a gun to her head to keep police back. Officers fired a stun gun but the nonlethal weapon was foiled by her heavy coat.

When she pointed her handgun at the two nearest deputies, officers switched to assault rifles, hitting Sarah Marie Stanfield of Boise eight times with bullets designed to break apart on impact to increase internal damage. She died last fall of multiple gunshot wounds.

Some jurisdictions across the U.S. have been arming rank-and-file officers with high-powered assault rifles for a decade or more. But law enforcement officials say that trend has accelerated in the last year because of greater numbers of shootouts, standoffs in which police were outgunned, rising officer deaths and mass shootings of civilians by heavily armed gunmen.

"If you get into a fire fight, you want to be the winner," said Scott Knight, police chief of Chaska, Minn., and chairman of the firearms committee for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. "Our departments are moving to those weapons out of necessity across the country."

Chaska, 25 miles southwest of Minneapolis, is a town of only about 24,000, but earlier this month Knight ordered the department's first 10 assault rifles, each with two 30-round magazines.

Only patchwork information is available on how many other law enforcement agencies are outfitting deputies and patrol officers with assault rifles, the kind of firepower once reserved for specialized SWAT teams. But from Chaska to Miami to college campuses, agencies are acquiring AR-15s or M-4s, both close relatives of the military's M-16. The rifles fire bullets with enough velocity to penetrate some types of body armor and have greater accuracy at longer range than handguns.

Last year, Miami Police Chief John Timoney authorized his patrol officers to carry AR-15s because of a rise in assault rifle use by criminals.

"This is a national problem. Police agencies all over the U.S. are going to bigger weapons," said Timoney, whose agency now has about 50 AR-15s and expects to get 150 more. He blames the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of heavily armed violence.

In 2007, according to preliminary numbers compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 69 officers were shot to death, up from 52 in 2006 and the most in five years. Last year included six shootings where two or more officers were killed in the same event, fund spokesman Kevin Morison said.

"There just seems to be a more brazen, cold-blooded killers out there," he said.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said it understands the moves to assault weapons. "Police officers need to be able to defend themselves and the rest of us, and they need the weapons to do so," said spokesman Peter Hamm.

Law enforcement officials say the trend toward issuing assault rifles to regular patrol officers started in Los Angeles after a 1997 shootout following a botched bank robbery. Two heavily armed men wore body armor that stopped 9 mm bullets fired by the handguns carried by police, 11 of whom were injured along with six civilians. The two robbers were eventually killed. The Los Angeles Police Department now issues AR-15s.

Two years later, police began rethinking a strategy of securing areas and waiting for negotiators and SWAT teams after two teens killing 13 people and wounded two dozen others at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

Campus police at Arizona's three large public universities are being armed with assault rifles. Officials say the weapons will enable officers to shoot at targets at the ends of long hallways or atop tall buildings.

In the Idaho case, an investigation cleared the deputies earlier this month, noting they initially risked their lives by attempting to use nonlethal means before firing their assault rifles.

"Any time that we perceive great bodily harm or death may result, we may take action," said Ada County Sheriff's Lt. Scott Johnson.

___

On the Net:

Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: http://www.nleomf.org/

International Association of Chiefs of Police: http://www.theiacp.org/

Brady Center: http://www.bradycenter.org/


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; beserkcop; ccw; donutwatch; leo; police; rkba
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To: Thombo2

I believe that LA bank heist happened while the Assault Weapon ban was in force. I wonder where the crooks got the weapons? Perhaps Miami Police Chief John Timoney is mistaken and criminals can get illegal weapons regardless of gun laws.


41 posted on 03/23/2008 10:04:51 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: CodeMasterPhilzar

Are they doing anything along the lines of serious sniper equipment and training?

The SWAT team generally has a couple of men who are trained in sniper techniques. How often do they train? Ask your PD.


42 posted on 03/23/2008 10:05:07 AM PDT by B4Ranch ("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

BSR: “The militarization of our local police forces has been a concern of mine for quite a number of years.”

I don’t see anything wrong with police carrying weapons heavy enough to take down criminals. However, I definitely think the SWAT teams are a stretch. Short of an emergency situation where lives are in immediate peril, police shouldn’t be breaking down doors (unannounced) in the middle of the night, nor should they be dressing like terrorists. I believe most of these raids could be handled with far less violence and risk to all involved if the police acted with a bit more patience. The judges who authorize these military-style actions are a real problem. What do you think?


43 posted on 03/23/2008 10:10:57 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Member of CRAM - Conservative Resigned to Accept McCain)
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To: CodeMasterPhilzar

“Are they doing anything along the lines of serious sniper equipment and training...?”I don’t know much about swat-just what i read and see on tv.But your right-one well placed round can terminate a threat.Good example-an armed criminal holding hostages.As far as a .50 cal in the armory-merely a suggestion on my part.Don’t know what swat teams use but a 30-06 bolt action is actually very effective:)


44 posted on 03/23/2008 10:11:23 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: CitizenUSA
I definitely think the SWAT teams are a stretch.

SWAT is a good thing considering the Islamic Morons can attack anywhere in the country

45 posted on 03/23/2008 10:15:50 AM PDT by ScratInTheHat (Don't like my immigration stance? I'm dyslexic. PC keeps sounding like BS to me!)
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To: jospehm20

Good point.”I wonder where the crooks got the weapons?”I believe(not 100% sure)they were modified(to full auto)after purchase.I have no idea where or when they were obtained(before or after assault weapon ban),but as you and i know,crooks will always be able to get firearms.Part two:your right-criminals could care less about “gun bans”.Too bad anti-gun nuts don’t perceive that critical point.


46 posted on 03/23/2008 10:25:29 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: ScratInTheHat

ScratInTheHat: “SWAT is a good thing considering the Islamic Morons can attack anywhere in the country”

You see, I just don’t think fear of terrorists and/or the risk of terrorist attack justifies a military-style police force. My liberty is worth far more to me than an infinitesimal increase in my individual safety that might come from unannounced, dark-of-night raids, random searches, government snooping, etc.


47 posted on 03/23/2008 10:27:54 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Member of CRAM - Conservative Resigned to Accept McCain)
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To: CitizenUSA
What do you think?

I agree totally. I don't have a problem with police forces arming themselves to defend themselves but things have gotten a bit ridiculous. The cops in LA or New York will have an obvious need for more effective weaponry and armor. But why do cops in Smalltown, USA need AR-15s and all the rest of the gear they have at their disposal?
As for the responses by judges and cops, I post this recent article from FR:

Another Drug Raid Nightmare

A young man is on trial for his life because the cops screwed up and will not admit as much. Their tactics for serving a warrant was wholly inappropriate and now one cop is dead and a citizen defending his home is about to lose his.

This is isn't the way it is supposed to be.

48 posted on 03/23/2008 10:45:58 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Great spirits will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
There are probably more deer rifles per capita in Chaska than Miami...

There are probably more deer rifles per capita in Chaska than Miami...

49 posted on 03/23/2008 12:09:20 PM PDT by kitchen (Any day without a fair tax thread is a good day.)
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: decimon
We are in a raising arms race with crooks but they want us to be unarmed. We are at a disadvantage with crooks in the technology and firepower. Do we need to become crooks to protect ourselves?
52 posted on 03/23/2008 1:11:07 PM PDT by mountainlion (Concerned Conservative.)
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To: Disambiguator

Yes, more agitprop. The media report that rifles can shoot through bady armor that is only meant to stop bullets from handguns. They also breathlessly report that a rifle has greater long-range accuracy than a handgun. As if that is something new and unexpected. As if the evil NRA was involved in a conspiracy to change the laws of physics to make a rifle more “powerful” than a handgun.


53 posted on 03/23/2008 1:13:04 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (True or False? This is not a tag line.)
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To: decimon

I was in Boise when the “mother-of-three” was shot. She was a meth-head who led he cops on a 3 county high speed chase.


54 posted on 03/23/2008 1:16:35 PM PDT by Rocky Mountain High
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To: Rocky Mountain High
I was in Boise when the “mother-of-three” was shot. She was a meth-head who led he cops on a 3 county high speed chase.

I don't blame the cops, or anyone, for defending themselves. I do think that shotguns would have done as well in stopping this woman and without the danger of killing someone a half-mile away.

55 posted on 03/23/2008 1:31:33 PM PDT by decimon
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To: decimon

When I got out of a cab in front of Grand Central, I saw four guys clad in MOLLE gear, with black helmets, and rifles in front of their chests.

I wonder where the party was. I should have asked that.


56 posted on 03/23/2008 11:03:14 PM PDT by wastedyears (The US Military is what goes Bump in the night.)
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To: Thombo2

As far as I know, cops don’t have to shoot a target from a mile away.


57 posted on 03/23/2008 11:05:46 PM PDT by wastedyears (The US Military is what goes Bump in the night.)
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To: wastedyears
When I got out of a cab in front of Grand Central, I saw four guys clad in MOLLE gear, with black helmets, and rifles in front of their chests.

That may be a roving squad that shows up at random at likely terrorist targets like transportation hubs. The idea being to not have security be predictable.

58 posted on 03/23/2008 11:11:32 PM PDT by decimon
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To: Disambiguator; FrPR; decimon
high-powered assault rifles.... I stopped reading right there, as this is a tip-off that what I was reading was anti-gun agitprop.

The MSM is very careless with the "High-Powered" adjective. The feared AK-47, for example, firing the 7.62X39, puts out a lot of rounds, but they are not any more "High-Powered" than Gramp's 30-30.

59 posted on 03/24/2008 5:35:38 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (GOP Plank: Double Domestic Crude Production. Increase refining capacity 50percent)
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To: wastedyears

And your refering to what?


60 posted on 03/24/2008 6:24:33 AM PDT by Thombo2
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