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Police in rising arms race with crooks
Associated Press ^ | March 23, 2008 | KEITH RIDLER

Posted on 03/23/2008 8:55:39 AM PDT by decimon

BOISE, Idaho - The 30-year-old mother of three jumped from her disabled SUV following a chase, holding a gun to her head to keep police back. Officers fired a stun gun but the nonlethal weapon was foiled by her heavy coat.

When she pointed her handgun at the two nearest deputies, officers switched to assault rifles, hitting Sarah Marie Stanfield of Boise eight times with bullets designed to break apart on impact to increase internal damage. She died last fall of multiple gunshot wounds.

Some jurisdictions across the U.S. have been arming rank-and-file officers with high-powered assault rifles for a decade or more. But law enforcement officials say that trend has accelerated in the last year because of greater numbers of shootouts, standoffs in which police were outgunned, rising officer deaths and mass shootings of civilians by heavily armed gunmen.

"If you get into a fire fight, you want to be the winner," said Scott Knight, police chief of Chaska, Minn., and chairman of the firearms committee for the International Association of Chiefs of Police. "Our departments are moving to those weapons out of necessity across the country."

Chaska, 25 miles southwest of Minneapolis, is a town of only about 24,000, but earlier this month Knight ordered the department's first 10 assault rifles, each with two 30-round magazines.

Only patchwork information is available on how many other law enforcement agencies are outfitting deputies and patrol officers with assault rifles, the kind of firepower once reserved for specialized SWAT teams. But from Chaska to Miami to college campuses, agencies are acquiring AR-15s or M-4s, both close relatives of the military's M-16. The rifles fire bullets with enough velocity to penetrate some types of body armor and have greater accuracy at longer range than handguns.

Last year, Miami Police Chief John Timoney authorized his patrol officers to carry AR-15s because of a rise in assault rifle use by criminals.

"This is a national problem. Police agencies all over the U.S. are going to bigger weapons," said Timoney, whose agency now has about 50 AR-15s and expects to get 150 more. He blames the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of heavily armed violence.

In 2007, according to preliminary numbers compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 69 officers were shot to death, up from 52 in 2006 and the most in five years. Last year included six shootings where two or more officers were killed in the same event, fund spokesman Kevin Morison said.

"There just seems to be a more brazen, cold-blooded killers out there," he said.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said it understands the moves to assault weapons. "Police officers need to be able to defend themselves and the rest of us, and they need the weapons to do so," said spokesman Peter Hamm.

Law enforcement officials say the trend toward issuing assault rifles to regular patrol officers started in Los Angeles after a 1997 shootout following a botched bank robbery. Two heavily armed men wore body armor that stopped 9 mm bullets fired by the handguns carried by police, 11 of whom were injured along with six civilians. The two robbers were eventually killed. The Los Angeles Police Department now issues AR-15s.

Two years later, police began rethinking a strategy of securing areas and waiting for negotiators and SWAT teams after two teens killing 13 people and wounded two dozen others at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.

Campus police at Arizona's three large public universities are being armed with assault rifles. Officials say the weapons will enable officers to shoot at targets at the ends of long hallways or atop tall buildings.

In the Idaho case, an investigation cleared the deputies earlier this month, noting they initially risked their lives by attempting to use nonlethal means before firing their assault rifles.

"Any time that we perceive great bodily harm or death may result, we may take action," said Ada County Sheriff's Lt. Scott Johnson.

___

On the Net:

Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund: http://www.nleomf.org/

International Association of Chiefs of Police: http://www.theiacp.org/

Brady Center: http://www.bradycenter.org/


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: armedcitizen; banglist; beserkcop; ccw; donutwatch; leo; police; rkba
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I agree, I see that as a real problem too.


21 posted on 03/23/2008 9:24:14 AM PDT by jospehm20
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To: decimon

I’m surprised the AP included this critical tidbit:”When she pointed her gun at the two nearest deputies”.First:as far as i’m concerned,at that point she crossed the line from being a threat to herself to being a threat to law enforcement.Whether LE used 9mm autos vs .223 to protect themselves is irrelevant.Second:criminals have access to,and use assault rifles.How can anyone argue that LE should be deprived of adequate firepower?Not too many yrs ago i recall two bank robbers(LA?)w full auto AK’s+body armor.The cops had to borrow high powered rifles from area gun shops to put them down.While i’m on my soapbox,if i were LE i’d like to have at least one of the new(semi-auto).50cal sniper rifles in the armory-just in case:)


22 posted on 03/23/2008 9:26:05 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: decimon
"This is a national problem. Police agencies all over the U.S. are going to bigger weapons," said Timoney, whose agency now has about 50 AR-15s and expects to get 150 more. He blames the 2004 expiration of the federal ban on assault weapons for the escalation of heavily armed violence.

In 2007, according to preliminary numbers compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 69 officers were shot to death, up from 52 in 2006 and the most in five years. Last year included six shootings where two or more officers were killed in the same event, fund spokesman Kevin Morison said.

Exactly ONE of those 69 was shot by someone using an "assault weapon". Source NLEOMF (PDF).

I can find this out with google and three minutes; disgustingly typical that the AP just leaves a lie like that standing.

23 posted on 03/23/2008 9:26:10 AM PDT by CGTRWK
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To: Thombo2

Oops.Correction to my previous post-LA incident already mentioned.


24 posted on 03/23/2008 9:30:04 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: decimon

” mass shootings of civilians by heavily armed gunmen.”

(should read) “mass shootings of unarmed civilians by heavily armed gunmen.”

There, fixed it.....


25 posted on 03/23/2008 9:31:11 AM PDT by ASOC (I know I don't look like much, but I raised a US Marine!)
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To: decimon

“If you get into a fire fight, you want to be the winner,”

Got that part correct.


26 posted on 03/23/2008 9:31:41 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
The militarization of our local police forces has been a concern of mine for quite a number of years.

It does not bode well for We The People in the long run

The Posse Comitatus Act was established to prevent just this sort of thing. What law enforcement agencies are doing around the country is illegal.

27 posted on 03/23/2008 9:34:13 AM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: umgud
They generally won't be able to protect us in our time of need, but will show up after the fact to draw chalk lines around those of us who weren't prepared to defend ourselves.

Hence the saying "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"

28 posted on 03/23/2008 9:37:19 AM PDT by PapaBear3625
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To: paul51
I'd rather the police forces reduce their ranks and provide the tax payers with rifles.

No modern government anywhere in the world today is going to give a man a useful gun without also having a stranglehold on his wallet.

29 posted on 03/23/2008 9:41:24 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: Eurale

“... but will show up after the fact to draw chalk lines around those of us who weren’t prepared to defend ourselves.”

Reminds me of this:

“Those that beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don’t.” Thom. Jefferson


30 posted on 03/23/2008 9:42:07 AM PDT by panaxanax (Writing in Duncan Hunter 2008!)
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To: decimon
"There just seems to be a more brazen, cold-blooded killers out there,"

> Call it the Anton Chigurh effect ! (Movie "No Country For Old Men")

31 posted on 03/23/2008 9:44:21 AM PDT by 1066AD
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To: CGTRWK
...disgustingly typical that the AP just leaves a lie like that standing.

Deceptive, perhaps.

...in 2007, according to preliminary numbers compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 69 officers were shot to death, up from 52 in 2006 and the most in five years.

Five years back from 2007 is 2002 when the assault weapons ban was in effect.

32 posted on 03/23/2008 9:44:57 AM PDT by decimon
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To: Thombo2
How can anyone argue that LE should be deprived of adequate firepower?Not too many yrs ago i recall two bank robbers(LA?)w full auto AK’s+body armor.The cops had to borrow high powered rifles from area gun shops to put them down.

Their problem isn't lack of firepower, it's lack of training. There's very little police need to be doing that can't be done with a service pistol, and the rest can be done with the shotgun.

Handing out automatic rifles to untrained cops who couldn't get it done before isn't going to make them effective, it's going to make them miss even more dangerously and often in the 10 or 20 foot confrontations that make up the policing they actually do.

If they want to play commando with black rifles so badly, the place for that is Iraq not Mayberry.

33 posted on 03/23/2008 9:44:59 AM PDT by CGTRWK
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To: decimon

These are NOT high-powered rifles. The reason hollow points are used and have ben for a long time is to prevent over penetration to make them safer for the innocent standing around. I hate thre MSM liars and stupid dopes.


34 posted on 03/23/2008 9:45:08 AM PDT by therut
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To: Thombo2
You're right - once she threatened the officers there were completely justified in shooting. In this case, I'd say I'm glad they had rifles of any type to get the job done. It is far easier to shoot a rifle accurately than a handgun. So in this case the officers were far more likely to put rounds on target and be less of a danger to anyone behind her in the line of fire.

As for police dept. gearing up... Are they doing anything along the lines of serious sniper equipment and training? A single well-aimed round can often end a bad situation.

35 posted on 03/23/2008 9:47:47 AM PDT by CodeMasterPhilzar
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To: decimon

Same thing happened in the 20s&30s.

Woop D freakin do!

Bonny and Clyde loved the BAR!


36 posted on 03/23/2008 9:51:27 AM PDT by ScratInTheHat (Don't like my immigration stance? I'm dyslexic. PC keeps sounding like BS to me!)
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To: CGTRWK

“Handing out automatic rifles to untrained cops....”I wasn’t aware they weren’t trained.I simply assumed.My bad:(


37 posted on 03/23/2008 9:59:08 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: Carbonsteel
The Posse Comitatus Act was established to prevent just this sort of thing.

I thought that statute was instituted to prevent federal military personnel under federal authority from acting as state or local law enforcement.

38 posted on 03/23/2008 9:59:52 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Great spirits will always encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I have no problem with our police officers being issued adequate arms to protect themselves when confronted by a criminal intent on killing them. I’d recommend the semi-auto version of the AR-15 as full automatic or burst fire is less likely to be accurate.

What frosts me is the mind set of the liberals and socialists who are scheming to rule us that common citizens who have no criminal past should be disarmed.

We have the human right to defend ourselves and our families against bad guys and government tyranny, plus use arms for sport. Anyone seeking to take away that right is intent on oppressing us.


39 posted on 03/23/2008 10:01:15 AM PDT by RicocheT
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

“The militarization of our local police forces has been a concern of mine for quite a number of years.”

Exactly. What type of crimes are these that the militarization is intended to counter. Perhaps today legitimate, perhaps tomorrow legitimate only in the perception of the anointed whom are making headway in our society on a leftward tack.

We’ll know with the results of the SCOTUS 2nd Amendment decision IMO. Everything is political anymore that the Left has such a strong dominance.


40 posted on 03/23/2008 10:04:22 AM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists...call 'em what you will...They ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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