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To: Thrownatbirth
The Founders obviously meant to bestow gun rights on the individual, especially in a country that was largely wilderness in the 1790's. They knew that a citizen threatened by a wild, raging animal is not going to call a well-regulated militia for help.

Same applies to this sh**hole known as DC.

No, you are wrong.

The right to bear arms has NOTHING to do with the wilderness or wild animals. Thomas Jefferson told us very CLEARLY what the 2nd amendment means. Unfortunately social facists and a intentional dumbing down of our education system has created a very contitutionally stupid american citizen.

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson

49 posted on 03/19/2008 8:57:07 AM PDT by 7mmMag@LeftCoast (The DNC and Rino's: they put the CON into congress everyday.)
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To: 7mmMag@LeftCoast

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson

That can’t be restated often enough.


58 posted on 03/19/2008 9:38:35 AM PDT by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Please visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/et al.)
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To: 7mmMag@LeftCoast
"Thomas Jefferson told us very CLEARLY what the 2nd amendment means. Unfortunately social facists and a intentional dumbing down of our education system has created a very contitutionally stupid american citizen. "

Apparently. Anyone who thinks he said "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms" and that he was referring to the 2nd amendment must be a product of such a system.

Thomas Jefferson was proposing the wording for an amendment to the 1776 Virginia State Constitution. The second amendment wasn't written until 1791, so he couldn't have been referring to it.

Second, what he actually proposed was, "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms within his own lands or tenements." Big difference.

Third, he used the term "freeman" not "free man". A freeman (or freeholder) was a citizen with full rights, including the right to vote.

Lastly, the Virginia legislature rejected his wording and went with:

"SEC. 13. That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided, as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power."

Not even close to what he proposed.

69 posted on 03/19/2008 10:13:43 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: 7mmMag@LeftCoast
7mmMag@LeftCoast said: "The right to bear arms has NOTHING to do with the wilderness or wild animals. "

Then 7mmMag@LeftCoast quoted Jefferson: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is,..."

To point out the contradiction in your post, I need only ask, "What is the second strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms?" Jefferson is in no way supporting your statement that self-defense in the wilderness is not a reason to safeguard the right.

84 posted on 03/19/2008 4:39:55 PM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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