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To: RockyMtnMan

Read what the Founders wrote about the “organized militia” and the “unorganized militia”. Not what some liberal/socialist POS “intellectual” writes, or thinks, or conjectures about it.

Self defense is THE most basic HUMAN, CIVIL, and CONSTITUTIONAL right - against individuals, against an insane, murderous government, against anything or anyone that threatens your life and your liberty.

Self defense with THE most expedient tool ever designed, the firearm, is your right. Period. And yes, the Founders said “Arms”, not “sporting purpose” nor “single-shot muskets”, nor “duck hunting guns”. Arms meaning standard, military-pattern weapons, should the need ever arise.

Rights are only taken away because you LET them be taken away. The right still exists; your ability to back it up with force is diminished. How many Swiss Jews went to the Nazi gas chambers? None. Why? Switzerland is an armed camp, and always has been. Theyvalue the lives of their citizenry and know that the best way to prevent invasion from without or civil insurrection from within is with an armed, “well-regulated” (trained), citizenry.

It all depends on how far you are willing to step back away from the line, what you are willing to put up with. Where do you draw the line? Ask the Founders. They knew their breaking point. They found a line they would not back away from anymore. Where is our line? When they start using all of those fancy paramilitary police swat teams going house to house to search for “illegal” guns? They did it already - in New Orleans, and now in Washington DC too.

This is NOT something open for negotiation, and our position, always, should be one of open contempt and complete disregard for ANYONE who proposes limiting, regulating, or taking away a Constitutional right.

Without the Second, the other nine are merely words on paper.


16 posted on 03/17/2008 9:17:06 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By any means necessary.)
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To: NFHale

We are in agreement. However, there is the matter of training. During the time of our founders men were generally well versed in fire-arms. Today, when I go to the range, I am often horrified at the lack of disciple/training. So much so I sometimes worry for my own safety.

While it is the individuals duty to seek proper study/training there is no mandate for it. This lack of training/education puts everyone at risk and in some cases is what drives the Liberal anti-gun machine. Fire-arms (of any type) should be made available to all citizens, however I would like to see some basic training as a requirement. Otherwise many of these untrained individuals pose a risk to me and my family, thereby violating my rights.

I don’t think it has to be anything extensive just basic safety training and some proof that such training was passed before being allowed onto a public range. I don’t want a bullet to the head because some jackass doesn’t know to treat a gun as always loaded.


17 posted on 03/17/2008 10:25:18 AM PDT by RockyMtnMan
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To: NFHale
Read what the Founders wrote about the “organized militia” and the “unorganized militia”. Not what some liberal/socialist POS “intellectual” writes, or thinks, or conjectures about it.

"No Freeman shall ever be disbarred from the use of arms."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self-defense."
-- John Adams

"The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed with Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, where the Government are afraid to trust their people with arms."
-- James Madison

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue if the law-abiding were deprived the use of private arms."
-- Thomas Payne

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides from an unarmed man, may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson.

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves. They include all men capable of bearing arms. To preserve liberty is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms and be taught alike how to use them."
-- Richard Henry Lee

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
-- Samuel Adams

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason

Courtesy of Glenn Beck

18 posted on 03/17/2008 10:51:01 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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