Sen. John McCain / Rev. John Hagee
Posted on 03/01/2008 6:21:35 AM PST by NYer
.- The endorsement of Senator John McCain by a Catholic-bashing Texas minister won swift rebuke from the president of the Catholic League and a Jewish leader concerned about his “vicious and inflammatory” anti-Catholicism.
Both compared the minister to Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan.
On Wednesday Pastor John Hagee endorsed Senator John McCain’s bid to become the Republican presidential candidate in the 2008 election.
Senator McCain responded to the endorsement by calling Hagee “the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement,” praising Hagee’s pro-Israel stance.
President of the Catholic League Bill Donohue harshly criticized the endorsement.
“There are plenty of staunch evangelical leaders who are pro-Israel, but are not anti-Catholic. John Hagee is not one of them,” Donohue said on Thursday. “Indeed, for the past few decades, he has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church. For example, he likes calling it ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system’.”
Donohue said that in Pastor Hagee’s latest book the minister claimed Hitler was a Catholic who murdered Jews while the Catholic Church did nothing. “The sell-out of Catholicism to Hitler began not with the people but with the Vatican itself,” wrote Hagee, according to Bill Donohue.
Donohue criticized the remarks, saying, “For the record, Hitler persecuted the Catholic Church and was automatically excommunicated in 1931—two years before he assumed power—when he acted as best man at Joseph Goebbel’s Protestant wedding. Hitler even bragged about his separation from the Church. As for doing nothing about the Holocaust, Sir Martin Gilbert reminds us that Goebbel denounced Pope Pius XII for his 1942 Christmas message criticizing the Nazis (the New York Times lauded the pope for doing so in an editorial for two years in a row). Much to Hagee’s chagrin, Gilbert also says that Pius XII saved three quarters of the Jews in Rome, and that more Jews were saved proportionately in Catholic countries than Protestant countries.”
Rabbi Irwin Kula, president of the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, echoed Donohue’s criticisms. In a Friday statement, Rabbi Kula said, “Just as Jews and other people of good will have appropriately demanded that Barack Obama unambiguously renounce and reject the endorsement of Minister Louis Farrakhan because of his bigotry and rabid anti-Semitism so Jews and other people of good will should demand that John McCain renounce and reject the endorsement of Pastor John Hagee because of his vicious and inflammatory anti-Catholicism.”
Rabbi Kula said Pastor Hagee’s position on Israel “does not mean he should be given carte blanche to denigrate and malign another religion.” He continued, saying, “Barack Obama showed his integrity when he rejected Minister Farrakhan’s hate whatever the political costs and sensitivities. John McCain is also a man of integrity. He needs to similarly reject Pastor Hagee’s hate whatever the political calculations and consequences.”
In a Friday statement Bill Donohue said Senator McCain’s opponent for the nomination, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, had expressed “disappointment and surprise” that Hagee had not chosen him. Donohue also compared Hagee to Louis Farrakhan, wondering why the candidates were fighting over the endorsement of such a figure.
Donohue also called on McCain to shun Hagee’s endorsement.
“Just this week, McCain repudiated the remarks of talk radio host Bill Cunningham,” Donohue said. “He should now repudiate Hagee’s long record of bashing Catholicism. After all, George W. Bush apologized for speaking at Bob Jones University, and Hagee makes Jones look like a lightweight in the ring of bigotry."
What I am saying is that people like you have no understanding of what is being said. You’re like the guy in the film who was kept busy saying “Now don’t say nothin’ about the brother” as if that were truly meaningful.
Are we looping back to “he’s talking about the Catholic’s church hierarchy and not Catholics”?
What are you talking about?
The same thing I’ve been talking about all along:
Hagee calling the Catholic Church “the great whore” “false cult system” and “the apostate church”.
You’ve been trying to make the point that this doesn’t slander, criticize, refer to, etc.. Catholics.
He also referred to the "whore of Babylon" which has a very well understood series of interpretations which relate back to a Babylonian folk practice.
That particular "whore of Babylon" usually refers to Judah or Israel ~ and must be read in context to avoid flying off the handle and circling the room.
It's not the Catholic church either.
The charge seems to be that Hagee refers to "the great whore" ~ and that doesn't exactly comform with Biblical usages ~ so what could it mean?
I noted that one "outside" source looking at his Book "Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World" said Hagee was referring to the Catholic Church at the time he used that extra-Biblical terminology.
I'd have to criticise him right there for trying to insert new terminology in Biblical interpretation, but if he did that, he's certainly not alone. Also noted that he counts Martin Luther as among the Catholics ~ and so he was ~ technically speaking. Again, I'd have to criticize Hagee for being so precise regarding Martin Luther and so loose with the term "great whore".
Could be Hagee is just another flawed human being, like you for example. Right?
But he has some great graphics for his sermons, the Moslems watch him closely (because they know he's talking about them even if you think he's talking about you ~ which he might once have been doing), and he only has 15,000 followers ~ and oh, yeah, he rejects replacement theology and concedes that Judaism continues to be valid ~ which we all knew, right?
Ain't nobody here praying for conversion of the Jews!
Say Amen
"Amen"
Now, together, all of us, say Amen...............
The charge is quite clear, in this article and others: “ he has waged an unrelenting war against the Catholic Church. For example, he likes calling it ‘The Great Whore,’ an ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ,’ and a ‘false cult system’.”
In addition there's the Hitler slander.
The point we've been discussing isn't whether you think the whore in Revelation refers to the RC, or whether Hagee is correct in doing so. We've been going round and round on who (Catholicism, Catholics, the Magisterium, a "hierarchical structure..) was being slandered/criticised by Hagee in this.
And having quite a bit of difficulty in doing so...
Could be Hagee is just another flawed human being, like you for example.
... for example, doesn't address the question either.
You’re being evasive.
Review the posting.
I’ve stayed on topic.
And I still am. If you don’t wish to continue, that’s fine too.
Divide and conquer all over again.
I’m in agreement with you.
It’s a major reason why Mitt withdrew - he’s a MORMON!
Bigots are out there - alive well and proud of that.
It’s really time we stopped this ... none of his beliefs are comparable to Fartacon
His friends in the MSM looked at their playbook and it said "Blame W" or "Blame the Republicans", whoever is convenient, so they dragged out the interpretations their betters have made of the possibility a non-denominational protestant speaker might have said "The Pope Is Bad".
There are even popes who have said that, but nevermind.
The motive was political in nature. McCain's a big boy so he knows there's no political advantage in denouncing people for their religious points of view (which is true for Dems and Republicans).
Now, about the "Great Whore", anyone know who she is?
It’s time to stop this infighting.
Misinformation like this...
The Catholic church believes if you aren’t Catholic you’re not good enough and not going to heaven.
doesn't help.
I couldn’t care less that John Hagee has endorsed McCain. I don’t care if McCain invites him to a BBQ the next time he’s in Sonora. Hagee’s an ignoramous and a liar. So are a lot of others. McCain beats the alternative so he gets my vote.
The Catholic church believes if you aren’t Catholic you’re not good enough and not going to heaven.
doesn’t help.
It’s true from the Catholic persepctive. The Pope refers to Protestants as “seperated bretheran”. I could care less what he says - that’s my point. My beliefs are NOT the same as Catholics yet we can happily co-exist.
Just bookmarking. I’ll get back to you later. :o)
if you aren’t Catholic you’re not good enough and not going to heaven.
No this is not true from a Catholic perspective. It's extremely false from a Catholic perspective, and I think quite inflammatory to non Catholic Christians (not to mention a sin to judge the salvation of another).
My beliefs are NOT the same as Catholics yet we can happily co-exist.
I'm am all for that. I'm just saying that promulgating this kind of fallacy doesn't promote that.
Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Go ahead and click. It's even grander when read in context.
Right, I don't think Hagee was talking about the Lady of the Sign at Revelation 12. But that's not I was referring to, either. When I said "Don't call my Mother a Whore," I was referring to Holy Mother the Church. And unless I'm mistaken, I think Hagee was calling this Mother, the Catholic Church, the Whore of Babylon.
Anyhow, I have no particular animus against Hagee. My only contact withj him was when I was going a couple of times a week for physical terapy, and my therapist always had Hagee (and Creflo Dollar) on the TV. Not my very favorite viewing in all the world, but marginally better than Cartoon Channel.
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