KILLER OR HERO? LET'S WAIT FOR FACTS BEFORE WE PASS JUDGEMENT

The Virginian-Pilot/ Pilot Online ^ | February 26, 2008 | Kerry Dougherty

[Rick.Donaldson]

I believe the cop was IN the house according to what I’ve read now.

[Oztrich Boy]

One report says cop was outside, engaged in breaking through the door and had already smashed one door panel.

On the face of it, a break and enter - in which case shooting through the door would appear not totally unjustifiable

[muawiyah]

One of two things ~ he knew what/who he was shooting at, or he shot out of fear.

Glad we got the debate down to that point.

Now, why is he in the sack at 8:30 PM?

[muawiyah]

They are neighbors, outside, and these are single-family homes, right?

Lots of times I don't hear what's going on in my neighbors' homess.

[Atlas Sneezed]

I’d damned sure better see a badge or the words POLICE on their front, hat, back or something.

---

I find blue and red flashing lights shining in the windows to be fair evidence that it’s the cops for real.

[supercat]

If the tank is full, the toilet will flush once with the water supply turned off.

How much can a drug dealer dispose of in one flush, without leaving residue behind? Is going after such quantities with no-knock raids worth the risk such tactics pose to everyone?

[Krankor]

Some deaf people have trouble speaking- especially if they’re dead

[Oztrich Boy]

Now, why is he in the sack at 8:30 PM?

Because he goes to work at 4:30 AM

[flaglady47]

Not guilty.

[muawiyah]

Could be. This is an important factoid ~ if he’s a shift worker and this is in the middle of his standard sleep cycle, he may not have been aware of the police presence until they were banging on his bedroom door.

[supercat]

Is it unreasonable to make the police give suspected drug dealers ten minutes notice of a raid, allowing the suspected drug dealers time to flush any drugs down the toilet or grab their guns and get ready to shoot it out? Unreasonable, right?

Unless the police have reason to believe that the inside of the house is always guarded, what is wrong with the approach of intercepting the suspect when he's entering or leaving, or else conducting the search when nobody is home?

IMHO, state legislatures need to enact at least three provisions to ensure compliance with the Constitution:

1. All evidence given in a request for a warrant must be supported by oath or affirmation, relating to personal knowledge of the affiant.
2. Any government personnel forcing entry into a private building bear the responsibility of proving their identity to anyone else who is entitled to be there. Except when infeasible due to exigent circumstances, such personnel also bear the responsibility of preserving evidence that they have done so.

3. If a cop acts in such a fashion that a lawful building occupant reasonably fears for his life, that cop shall bear the risk of anything the occupant might do.

Imposing such requirements on police shouldn't make their job much more difficult, but would make everybody safer.

BTW, I forget who first posed this question, but I think it's a good one: if someone smashes into your home and yells "POLICE", is it more likely to be (1) a crook yelling "police", or (2) real police? If the answer is (1), then shooting at the intruders would hardly be unreasonable. If the answer is (2), something is clearly wrong with raid policies.

[Lancey Howard]

Was Detective Shivers executing a no-knock entry?
Yes. Additionally, no drugs were found.

Hmm. It almost sounds like somebody on the Chesapeake police force or in the DA's office wanted to get rid of Shivers, Serpico-style.

[wastedyears]

Was this one of those no-knock warrants?

[mad_as_he$$]

There have been and continue to be a series of home invasions in the Sf Bay area. One last week killed three or four residents.

[brwnsuga]

From what I’m hearing the informant gave bad information. He was supposedly growing some pot plants and that hasn’t panned out. I feel sorry for the detective’s family, they seem to be lovely people, but I also feel terrible for the “defendant” whose house was robbed not too long before this incident. To call it first degree murder implies that he planned to kill this detective, but I don’t think this charge is going to stick. I hope he gets a good lawyer.

[marktwain]

One of the major points of warrants was to insure that the resident/homeowner would *know* that it was an official investigation and not just a robbery in progress.

The whole process is pretty much invalidated by the “no knock” policy. There are very few criminals who deliberately want a shootout with the police. That is almost never the case. There are probably more shootouts over mistaken identity than deliberate shootouts with the police.

[arthurus]

That’s what it sounds like. Other questions this didn’t answer. Did the police have the right address? How many were there?

[arthurus]

If the homeowner id firing a semi-auto shotgun aimed at head level, maybe the invaders don’t come out on top, even with their vests and shorts.

[arthurus]

Once the defendant is exonerated he needs to change his address very soon. The police will get revenge. A few years ago a young fellow here got misidentified and arrested. The charges were obviously wrongly applied soon after but the state's attorney insisted on going to trial and that judge never second guesses the state's attorney. The jury was out for a few minutes and turned him loose. The kid got questioned as a "person of interest" several times in the following 6 months and collected enough tickets to lose his license before his father decided the family needed to live in another state.

[arthurus]

The epitome of no-knock occurred in Waco, Texas a few years back. The “police” burned up a few people and shot a few more as I recall.