I read teh first hundred or so and then went to the last page to see if there was anything new. I think I’ll pass and wait for the results of the new tests on the Shroud. All this happy, cheery banter back and forth has led to a diminished appetite over anything either of you have bothered to type. Time will tell, or perhaps not, but I’ll at least spare myself the need to read more “I’m right and you’re not” stuff and let the scientists sort it out.
Time will tell, or perhaps not, but I’ll at least spare myself the need to read more “I’m right and you’re not” stuff and let the scientists sort it out.
The scientists *have* sorted it out.
McCrone is one scientist (IIRC now deceased) who used one method (polarizing microscopy) and proclaimed the presence of pigments. To my knowledge he did not use either positive controls (other known examples of the items in question, either blood or paint) to compare with the Shroud. His results have not been replicated by independent labs; and when he gave samples to the independent labs for the testing they did, he violated the agreed-upon protocols for treating the samples. His one published work came about 10 years *after* he performed it, and only after the carbon dating there has been so much fuss about.
The fuss about the carbon dating has been covered in this thread -- the problem is that the sampling was all from one area of the Shroud, and in particular from an area which had been adulterated many many years ago. This is a systematic bias in the execution of this particular test, and not some whining about "C-14 isn't a valid methodology" as you might see on a crevo thread. If the re-testing is done with attention to detail, custody and preparation of the sample, and controls, it might put that particular issue to rest.
By contrast, the other labs used a large number of independent tests for different blood components, including aged breakdown products of hemoglobin, blood proteins, iron as it was would be found in blood, microscopic examination of the fibers on the shroud itself, and using many different chemical and physical tests. Many of these tests have been well-established outside of the study of the Shroud, and the tests have included controls, and been published in genuine independent-peer-review mainstream journals.
All of these tests were positive for blood and protein components, but not for paint or pigments.
Finally, the current "state of the art" regarding the actual composition of the image on the Shroud, is that it is the result of Maillard reactions taking place between gases coming off of a newly dead corpse, and the wrapping. This is entirely a naturalistic explanation and does not require any miraculous intervention.
See posts #122, #132, #145, #173, #175, #185, and #261.
There. 300+ posts condensed to less than a dozen.
You could also look at the hypertext links provided in #261.
For the "personal" stuff, please re-read post #337...I have included explicit instructions on how to report abuse to the mods. So far, SpringheelJack is the only one whose posts have been removed by the moderator.
Cheers!