i live in macomb....my wife and i voted fred, but my son went for romney....

Maybe its appropriate to point out the following people:

Thomas S Monson, Boyd K Packer, Robert D Hales, and L Tom Perry...and I know there are others but those I know of for sure.

All saw active combat.

All are in the top ranks of the LDS Church.

I know there is a retired 4 Star General that is a 70 as well.

We don't want to go to war, but we will if we are called up to do so.

So much for a passive religion and false accusations.

they simply work cheaper

Well it depends... but there might be a smidgin of truth to that in some circles.

In the West where there are lots of Mormons people are farm hands and farm boys and girls. They are taught to live, but live simply when possible.

If you come from a modest background like that your work ethic tends to be high.

Mitt didn't work for cheap from the looks of it though. Nor has quite a few other Mormons I know of.

Moreover, I tend to think most of the problems in America are internal. One could argue that the US is 10 trillion or 52 trillion in debt but to me that’s not the main problem. I tend to think the main problem is…..

Within white non-Jewish America, the phrase is “she/he can carry it off” (I).

In short, America’s success was due to the spirit of the Reformation, which naturally included enlightenment, and a belief that free individuals could collectively form an ideal egalitarian society. From its inception, free individuals were defined as WASP men but designed to include all men with similar values over time. The combination of hard work, intellectual development, free thinking, fraternity, freedom, responsibility and “American class” defined these individuals. Over time, non-WASP Europeans joined the American experiment and were initially viewed as second class citizens, but they were NOT SYSTEMATICALLY ELIMINATED from the American fraternity. So up until the early 1900s, this defined America, which included many non-WASPs who became successful (Many Jews and specifically the Kennedy family as Catholics) by adopting American values. I’ll come back to this later.

The African American “they’re giving it away”.

The Northeastern US has always been closely tied to the United Kingdom. Following the UK and Europe’s lead (the late 1700s), starting in the mid-1800s, the Northern US started a movement to end slavery throughout the US. Having done so but still being uncomfortable with Africans, the US struggled with how to manage a society with the inclusion of the African ex-slaves. Due to the brilliance of SOME African Americans, starting in the mid-1950s, Thurgood Marshall and others led to the changing of laws to NOT RESTRICT black Americans from the same opportunities that were available to white Americans. Blacks took notice and word spread very quickly via black churches. This started a new movement, a “we all want what white Americans have and we all want it now because we are the descendants of slaves and have been uniquely treated unfairly in America” movement (better know as the Civil Rights Movement). With this movement, a “treat all blacks as special because they deserve it” mentally started which, in effect, has done what slavery, Jim Crow laws and segregation could not do, destroy black America’s soul as communism destroys all souls it touches

Within white non-Jewish America, the phrase is “she/he can carry it off” (II).

With this guiding philosophy and the reality that the energy it takes to be the ideal American and keep American going is unsustainable over time, a catch phrase started in white America. This phrase, “she/he can carry it off” meant that anyone can simply act as though they’re the ideal American and not worry about the underlying values. With this, all that was the American meritocracy quickly turned into “pretend and get all that you can get from the system”. This is where America is today!!!

Isn’t the government of Spain Communist?

I don’t know about Thompson being a pervert...that’s pretty unfair. While Fred says the right things, it not just what you say, but how you say it. He comes off as a stiff most of the time...he lacks a sense of passion and fire in the belly. In fact, having a younger wife is one of the few signs that Fred actually has a pulse.

I didn't say he was one. I said he "looks" like one. And if you think I'm unfair, the idiots on the left would have a field day with his "trophy wife" (and their two children). Nevertheless, if he is the nominee, he has my vote.

I agree that he seems to lack passion in this race. Maybe it's just fatigue. He is 65.

Last night after listening to an interview of Romney on NPR, I decided that I am going to vote for Romney.

He listens. He is articulate. He is specific. He knows his stuff. He does not come across as combative or defensive.

He gets it. He made the NPR reporter appear amateur. Best interview of a Repub by NPR in a very long time.

Isn’t the government of Spain Communist?

This is a very complex question to answer and it therefore depends on one’s perspective. Here's mine…

First, I assume that people are predictable products of genetics, social conditioning and spirituality. So the general drivers are that Spain is a Catholic country with a feudalistic past and America is WASP country based of the constitution. So the South of Spain is a bit of an Americanized evolved feudalistic society where everyone is a bit comfortable with their lives via a work to live mindset. The North of Spain is more of a European socialist society with a changing less-cultured Middle Class and a cultured elite who are a bit uncomfortable with the individualized live-to-work American influences. So one could call the trend in Spain as soft communism or socialism but with “parental” feudalistic tendencies of the elite.

He will lose in 40 of 50 states, but don’t let that stop you.

Romney's Wife Gave Money to Planned Parenthood

Republican Abortion Opponent Accused of Shifting His Views

Mitt Romney, governor of Massachusetts, and his wife, Ann, arrive at the White House for a state dinner February 26, 2006 in Washington, DC. Many of the nation's governors spent the evening at the White House, attending a state dinner and entertainment, in honor of the states and territories of the U.S. (

By RICK KLEIN
May 9, 2007

Former Gov. Mitt Romney's wife, Ann, gave an $150 donation to the abortion-rights group Planned Parenthood in 1994, at a time when Romney considered himself effectively "pro-choice," the Romney campaign confirmed today.

Campaign spokesman Kevin Madden said Ann Romney had no recollection of the circumstances under which she donated the money.

He said an internal review of Romney's personal records has not turned up any instances in which Romney, a Massachusetts Republican, himself sent money to groups that supported expanded abortion rights.

"The governor has not donated to Planned Parenthood or abortion-rights groups," Madden said.

Madden said he did not know whether the former governor was aware of the donation, but he noted that Romney had been publicly committed to upholding a woman's right to an abortion until late 2004.

"This is an issue that the governor has changed his position on, that the governor was wrong on in the past and believes he is right on now," he said.

Giuliani Donated to Abortion-Rights Group

The issue of past donations to abortion-rights groups has exploded in the Republican presidential campaign in the past few days, with the revelation that former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani gave six separate donations to Planned Parenthood during the 1990s.

That information -- obtained from tax returns that Giuliani released when he served as mayor -- has forced Giuliani to scramble to explain his statements that he has always been personally opposed to abortion.

Planned Parenthood is the nation's biggest abortion provider and lobbies actively to expand abortion rights.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and his top aides have been particularly strong in denouncing Giuliani for making the donation, but the Romney camp has not entered the fray.

Romney Changed Mind

Madden said a search of Romney campaign records unearthed only one donation the former governor had made to an abortion-related group: His foundation gave $15,000 in 2005 to Massachusetts Citizens for Life.

Thursday, Romney is scheduled to deliver a speech before that organization's Pioneer Valley chapter -- the first speech of his presidential campaign to an anti-abortion rights group.

The speech is expected to draw protesters from both sides of the abortion debate, with both abortion rights activists and abortion righs opponents upset with Romney's position on abortion.

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For the Campaign '08 Obsessive Who Has Everything

A campaign 2008 holiday gift guide. --Rachel Dry 3:53 PM ET | More »

Candidate Watch

Romney's 'Flip, Flop, Flip'

Romney at Planned Parenthood fund-raiser, June 12, 1994.

"Every piece of legislation which came to my desk [as] governor, I came down on the side of preserving the sanctity of life."

--Mitt Romney, NBC "Meet the Press", December 16, 2007.

It is becoming difficult for Mitt Romney to keep track of his twists and turns on the abortion issue. The photograph above shows Romney back in June 1994 during his first big political campaign, running against Sen. Ted Kennedy in Massachusetts. It was taken at a fund-raiser for the pro-abortion rights group, Planned Parenthood, in Cohasset, Mass. The woman with her back to Romney is Nicki Nichols Gamble, former president of the Massachusetts branch of Planned Parenthood, which accepted a $150 contribution from Romney's wife Ann (in a white jacket to Romney's right.)

The "pro-choice" candidate for senator, and later governor, of Massachusetts is now the "pro-life" candidate for president of the United States. His record as governor is controversial, however. Interviewed by Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" last Sunday, Romney claimed that he took a "pro-life" position on "every piece of legislation" that came before him. But that is untrue, at least by his present definition of what constitutes "life."

The Facts

Romney announced his conversion to "pro-life" views in an editorial in the Boston Globe on July 25, 2005, the day after vetoing a bill expanding access to the so-called "morning after" pill, which required that it be made available to rape victims. See my detailed and updated chronology here. Abortion rights groups such as Planned Parenthood expressed shock at the governor's change of heart, after he had personally signed a pledge to support increased access to the "morning after" pill. "Pro-Life" groups hailed the decision.

That was not the end of the story, however. The controversy over "emergency contraception" continued to haunt Romney. In October 2005, another bill came to his desk, seeking a federal waiver to expand the number of Massachusetts citizens eligible for family planning services, including the "morning after" pill. Romney signed that bill over the objections of his new anti-abortion allies. On this occasion, he was applauded by "pro-choice" advocates.

The issue came up yet again in December 2005. After weeks of agonizing, Romney instructed all hospitals in the state to comply with the terms of the emergency contraception law, and make the morning-after pill available to rape victims. He acted on the advice of his legal counsel, over the objections of half a dozen Catholic hospitals, which had previously refused to provide emergency contraception on the grounds that it conflicted with their religious views.

"Flip,flop,flip," editorialized the Boston Herald, on December 9, 2005. "Yes, Gov. Mitt Romney has now executed an Olympic-caliber double flip-flop with a gold medal-performance twist-and-a-half on the issue of emergency contraception."

Views on the acceptability of the "morning after" pill vary greatly, depending on exactly how you define "life." Many "pro-life" advocates, including Romney, take the view that life begins at the moment when a female egg is fertilized by the male sperm. They are opposed to the "morning after" pill, because it can prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus. "Pro-choice" groups argue that life begins much later.

Romney's gyrations on abortion have upset both sides. "For Mitt Romney, this has been not just a flip-flop, but an extreme makeover," said Angus McQuilken, vice president for public affairs with the Planned Parenthood Advocacy Fund of Massachusetts. "Where he stands on any issue is always a moving target."

"I don't see how he can sign bills like that and say with a straight face that he is taking a pro-life position," said Joseph M. Scheidler, founder of the Pro-Life Action League, which is opposed to all forms of abortion. "There's no way we can accept that.".

UPDATE THURSDAY 11:30 A.M.: I just spoke with Nichols Gamble, the Planned Parenthood official who accepted the $150 cheque from the Romneys in June 1994. She says she had no reason to believe at the time that Romney was "not 100 percent behind the pro-choice public policy position." She now thinks that Romney "tried to have it both ways and every way to Sunday" on abortion, depending on what political office he was seeking.

The Pinocchio Test

Romney has changed his position so often on abortion that he lacks much credibility on this one. The Romney campaign did not respond to a e-mailed request to clarify the governor's position, so he loses the argument by default on this occasion. Three Pinocchios.

(About our rating scale.)

“I don’t see how he can sign bills like that and say with a straight face that he is taking a pro-life position,” said Joseph M. Scheidler, founder of the Pro-Life Action League, which is opposed to all forms of abortion. “There’s no way we can accept that.”.

And one more thing (okay, call me Cosby on philosophical steroids) for the PC folks from wiki....

“During the 1950s, Thurgood Marshall developed a friendly relationship with J. Edgar Hoover, the director the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In 1956, for example, he privately praised Hoover’s campaign to discredit T.R.M. Howard, a maverick civil rights leader from Mississippi.”

He saw it coming........

People thought Richard Nixon, as a Quaker, was also a pacifist. Then he almost bombed the North Vietnamese into submission. Almost only because Watergate snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Your summation is a carbon copy of what I’ve been posting here on FR for months, only funnier.

Hopefully, many of these hardline Freepers can get past their angst and realize that Mitt Romney is the closest thing we have to a “Ronald Reagan Republican”, whatever THAT is.

For those who are under the false impression that Romney is this uber-liberal, I ask again: “Please name me the specific laws or legislation he passed that would categorize him even remotely close to being a liberal.

Romney was constantly being defended by the Mass ProLife groups, and a plethora of OTHER very conservative groups who paid much closer attention the I.

>He will lose in 40 of 50 states, but don’t let that stop you.

My biggest reason to NOT vote for him is his religion. I don’t hate Mormons (obviously), but I realize that there is a LOT of religious bigotry out there (especially within the GOP) and that it will make a very tough sale.

But I fail to understand how you could have read the article that this thread is about and suggest Romney would not have a shot. One of the points of the article is that Romney has a GREAT shot of capturing the Reagan Democrats.

I really dislike spam.

Thanks for sharing.

SPAM. Nice

“I don’t see how he can sign bills like that and say with a straight face that he is taking a pro-life position,” said Joseph M. Scheidler, founder of the Pro-Life Action League, which is opposed to all forms of abortion. “There’s no way we can accept that.”.

Thanks,

The female vote is hard enough for the GOP to capture as it is. There must be millions of ex-wives out there who lost their husband to a younger woman. Should that matter when voting for a president? No. But I tend to believe that emotion plays heavily in the female vote.

Here's the real problem. When something looks too good to be true, it usually is. I don't know what Thompson has in his closet (if anything), but if just one, just one gets out he's finished. That's how high the bar has been set that high for him.