Posted on 01/16/2008 4:01:09 AM PST by LowCountryJoe
Rochester
IN the days before Tuesday’s Republican presidential primary in Michigan, Mitt Romney and John McCain battled over what the government owes to workers who lose their jobs because of the foreign competition unleashed by free trade. Their rhetoric differed — Mr. Romney said he would “fight for every single job,” while Mr. McCain said some jobs “are not coming back” — but their proposed policies were remarkably similar: educate and retrain the workers for new jobs.
All economists know that when American jobs are outsourced, Americans as a group are net winners. What we lose through lower wages is more than offset by what we gain through lower prices. In other words, the winners can more than afford to compensate the losers. Does that mean they ought to? Does it create a moral mandate for the taxpayer-subsidized retraining programs proposed by Mr. McCain and Mr. Romney?
Um, no. Even if you’ve just lost your job, there’s something fundamentally churlish about blaming the very phenomenon that’s elevated you above the subsistence level since the day you were born. If the world owes you compensation for enduring the downside of trade, what do you owe the world for enjoying the upside?
[Snip]
One way to think about that is to ask what your moral instincts tell you in analogous situations. Suppose, after years of buying shampoo at your local pharmacy, you discover you can order the same shampoo for less money on the Web. Do you have an obligation to compensate your pharmacist? If you move to a cheaper apartment, should you compensate your landlord? When you eat at McDonald’s, should you compensate the owners of the diner next door? Public policy should not be designed to advance moral instincts that we all reject every day of our lives.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
To be fair, the quality of Chinese products is improving quite rapidly, largely driven by the companies that have outsourced there, especially Asian companies. Citizen watches are mostly made there. Great Japanese company, right? Other Japanese precision products like Seiko and Panasonic are outsourced to Singapore or Viet Nam. Why? Because it costs too much to have Japanese craftsmen make them anymore. Or so we are told. And certainly, it costs too much for American craftsmen to make things anymore. They're all made by Japanese robots anyway (which were outsourced, because robot assembly is too expensive). Maybe someday the outsourcing companies will outsource to America because Singapore is too expensive. India is already outsourcing to Mexico. It's global musical chairs.
Change is inevitable. Some amount of globalism is inevitable. I just hope we still have some small piece of Americana left in 20 years.
“Um, no, I don’t. I’m truly not like you, at all.” Man, that was easy.
Show me were a "protectionist" has said that productivity is bad on this thread. There is difference between increased productvity which required less labor(like ag jobs) than offshoring 100% of the labor.
“Pointing out that Americans losing jobs to China trade does really irritate some.”
lol!
Are you quoting someone?
You can stick YOUR “case” Toddster....I don’t give a damn about anything here but jobs....dollars, tons, number of widgets are meaningless to me....and to other Americans who give a damn.
Yet, these guys will be the first ones to lecture us about dealing with the message and not the messenger.
Some economist writes a paper for EPI, and he’s secretly a conservative!
I'm still amazed by how many long term FReepers will cite to EPI. Whatever it takes, I suppose. I guess I should be surprised we don't see more links to Common Cause.
Yes I am. Regardless of who it is, that statement is factual.
The only change I’ve seen is that they don’t cite to Media Matters since the “phony soldier” fiasco. With regard to EPI, I think they just hope no one notices the origin.
Here’s a newsflash for you: something does not become “fact” by mere repetition of unattributed words.
So how many of the 3 million manufacturing jobs were lost to productivity versus companies closing down plants and offshoring them?
How many jobs were lost by importing $270 million dollars of goods from China??
Let Halgr respond how he feels about productivity not just a statement he made on a thread that can be taken out of context.
Your plan is ruined at step number one.
Where is it written that the benefits from commerce should all flow to the US workforce?
Do lower prices benefit the US workforce? Does keeping more of their money in their pockets benefit the US worker or not? Should they pay higher prices for goods and services to assuage your concerns or should they use that money to buy more of what they need for their families, provide for their retirement and pay for their kid's education? Why do 127 million Americans shop at Wal-Mart every week? Are they also traitors who care nothing for the plight of the working man?
When corporate profits are strong does that help or hurt the value of their stock? Are you aware that about 60% of all American workers are invested in the stock markets today as opposed to just 25% in 1982?
Its not rocket science... but the likes of McCain just tell everyone to enroll in your local JC and it will be OK....
Ok, so? If you understand that EPI employs such ideology, why did you use them to support your argument?
I don't know. But, despite 3 million fewer manufacturing jobs (I don't know if that's the real number) we manufacture more.
How many jobs were lost by importing $270 million dollars of goods from China??
You tell me. Show me the formula you use. $1 billion in imports = how many lost jobs?
Let Halgr respond how he feels about productivity
You saw how he felt, "....I don’t give a damn about anything here but jobs....dollars, tons, number of widgets are meaningless to me"
It sounds like all he cares about is jobs. Maybe we should get rid of farm machinery and use horse pulled plows? More jobs for people is the only thing that matters, right?
You're the one who defended using EPI as a source. My comments were directed specifically to your defense of them. Period.
I posted (approx. 3) and Lou Dobbs (which I posted approx. 2), as well as 1 post citing information from other sources which back up Schlafly's and Dobbs claims?
Lou Dobbs is a fraud who's in this for his own personal gain. He's right about the need to protect our borders but he's wrong about everything else. Schlafly is right on the money with her views on social issues but she should have stayed on that topic. She is woefully ignorant when it comes to economics.
Rather than slog my way through all of the articles you posted by Dobbs and Schlafly, why not list a few of their most salient points, in your opinion, and let's debate them.
McMainiac is a Chinese Agent. But he’s not alone.
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