Posted on 01/14/2008 8:04:27 PM PST by forkinsocket
Ron Paul is not a nut. He is honorable and intelligent. I have talked with Congressman Paul about politics and policies. He is consistent and principled. Much of what he says is true. The Constitution is routinely ignored by politicians of both political parties. Government spending, particularly entitlements, is wildly out of control. The crucial constitutional concepts of federalism and limited government are tacitly denied and this denial is the crux of many of our social and political problems.
But Ron Paul holds the vain hope that American government would return to constitutional law anytime soon, even if he did win the presidency. Congress, the judiciary, legal education, and tradition have imparted momentum to the living constitution school of thought. Bring about an actual return to the Constitution requires more than a snap of the president's fingers. Federal courts routinely "interpret" the Constitution in ways directly in conflict with the plain language of the document. At best, a president can only appoint judges the Senate will confirm and wait for natural turnover.
A lot of persuasion is necessary before Americans (including our elites and their institutions) change their way thinking. We in fact still need a crusade to change hearts and minds more than a candidacy.
And if we are going to return to first principles, remember that the Constitution is not the foundational document of our American experiment in individual liberty. It was preceded by the Articles of Confederation. Prior to the Articles of Confederation, which were adopted after independence, the Continental Congress acted as the original government of the United States and successfully waged a war against the great superpower on the planet with very little real authority. The fundamental principles of American government were established long the Constitution was adopted.
What does matter is the Declaration of Independence. The divine endowment of all people with liberty comes directly out of this document of 1776 and it is to this document that serious friends of liberty should look for inspiration and restoration. And what was the Declaration of Independence? It was, in effect, a declaration of war against the British Empire.
It was not an isolationist document but a universalist document. It speaks, pointedly, to the rest of the world. It talks about the reasons that governments are formed (not just our government.) It was bold, sweeping, and international. And it was seen by the rest of the world as just that: A revolutionary document for all peoples, even if it applied specifically only to thirteen embattled colonies in North American.
Ron Paul wants to return us to the Constitution, as if it were a sacred document which granted us freedom. Our spiritual lodestar should be the Declaration of Independence, which remains a much more dangerous, much more powerful, and much more relevant document to our times.
Some policies Paul proposes are admirable. Why do we still have armies in Germany and in Korea, when both are rich, modern industrialized nations? Why does government have to do so much and why does "government" more and more mean centralized government in Washington? Why have a tax code which punishes productivity and which requires contortionist behavior from business?
But other parts of Paul's policies simply do not fit our age. The notion that we should disengage from the Middle East, for example, suggests that Israel is "just another nation," like, say, North Korea or Syria. The foundation of the Jewish state was based upon the undeniable facts of history continuing, dreadfully, through the Holocaust, that Jews are not "just another people," but are rather a persecuted people who were not welcome when escaping Nazified Europe. Ignoring that is ignoring salient history.
Likewise, the stark contrast between Israel and its neighbors (except, until the last three decades, the successful state of Lebanon) cannot be ignored, and the murderous intent of neighbors who seriously read in large numbers Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion is also a grim, absolute fact of the modern world. The notion that, on paper, Israel can make peace with these neighbors is not just pure theory, but it is theory which has failed the test of experience.
Paul also seems to doubt that people wish to do America harm because it is America, and that nuclear weapons change everything. Ever since H.G. Wells first used the term "atomic bomb" in his science fiction stories more than a century ago, it has become almost inevitable that true, horrific global war power was inevitable. Happily, America acquired fission weapons and then fusion weapons first. Happily also, America has had leaders willing to use that power to protect our nation and allies who would otherwise be unprotected.
And, as we learned from the Japanese in the Second World War and from radical Moslems today, the calculus of economic benefits and political rights which works very well in moderating and balancing the behavior of most people, simply does not work with everyone. Does anyone doubt that the Japanese would have used the atomic bomb on American cities or that radical Moslems will use thermonuclear bombs on America, if they can, even if it means massive casualties in our retaliation?
Liberty can no longer stand safely behind two vast oceans and decent men can no longer ignore their human brethren after Hitler, Stalin and Mao. As Lincoln today might have said "This world cannot long endure half slave and half free." This was also perhaps the greatest victory of the greatest conservative leader of our age: Ronald Reagan. Congressman Paul might recall the Gipper's Cold War strategy: "How about this: We win; they lose?"
Ronald Reagan, like Abraham Lincoln, understood the supra-constitutional importance of liberty in the fulfillment of America, and liberty to them meant more than just the liberty of American citizens. If the ideal which is America is to survive the totalitarian impulse which we see not only in North Korea and the Taliban, but among the Leftists in our own nation, then we need to recapture the fortitude of Washington, the vision of Lincoln and the clarity of Reagan. If we can do this and preserve the vestiges of the Constitution, fine.
But the vision of America is much more than the Constitution. It is much more than Congressman Paul sees. What Ron Paul proposes is not bad or dishonest. It is simply no longer enough for liberty and decency to survive in America or in the world.
or is it warmonger?
Jefferson was speaking of domestic freedom, not sending troops around the world to fight for other people.
Jefferson was speaking of those who would enslave us in the name of 'national security'.
So, you have to compare his quote urging non-involvement in other nations internal affairs as well.
Not U.S. troops, but the U.S. government.
All governments turn tyrannical when they get too large, and ours will be no different.
That is why we have a Constitution, to prevent that.
Now, take your goofy nonsense somewhere else, you are just wasting my time with your inane posts.
>>>>Both, the later causing the first. Just like the hapless UN of today, as I said it would be more ideal if the UN did it’s job too, but they’re clearly CLEARLY NOT!
The UN is an illegal organization that the US should not belong to.
It is a violation of U.S. sovereignty.
But the UN came out of the failure of the League of Nations, which the US did not wisely join, because the League was unable to stop aggressive nations, just as the UN is incapable of doing.
Either way just pulling back to the western hemisphere the way you prefer would have meant all the world’s oil reserves would be in either Imperial Japanese or third reich hands, not to mention Jews would no longer exist outside the Western Hemisphere.
We were not 'pulling' back anywhere.
Britain and France could have easily dealt with Germany, which was really their problem and not ours.
But they chose not to so they paid the price and we had to bail them out again!
As for Asia, Japan was running on borrowed time having bit off more then she could chew.
The Japanese had to destroy our Pacific fleet and hope that we would weary and sue for peace.
They underestimated the U.S. resolve to fight a war to its conclusion no matter what the losses.
It is amazing what actually declaring a war will do to obtain victory.
I guess that is why we don't do it anymore, we might actually have to win.
[ But drink that kool-aid! ]
Go learn some history.
OK....so we’re no different than the 3rd reich.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight.
The UN is an illegal organization that the US should not belong to.
It is a violation of U.S. sovereignty.
But the UN came out of the failure of the League of Nations, which the US did not wisely join, because the League was unable to stop aggressive nations, just as the UN is incapable of doing.
>>>>Nice dodge, but none of that is the point, regardless of all of that, they still aren’t doing what they’re supposed to do, and someone still has to do what is right, regardless. As I pointed out via Edmund Burke, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Kind of why Clinton bypassed them and went with NATO over Kosovo.
Britain and France could have easily dealt with Germany, which was really their problem and not ours.
>>>>Yes, had they dealt with them early on perhaps...and I have NO DOUBT people just like you that said the exact same things you’re saying now in both England and France: “Well, ummmm it isn’t OUR business” when Hitler was rebuilding the Reich and they got their way and oh will you lookie there:
suddenly Germany not only became their problem (like it or not) but they occupied France and nearly beat Britain and it became OURS too! The WHOLE WORLD’s problem in fact!
But they chose not to so they paid the price and we had to bail them out again!
>>>>>Riiiiiiight which means it....(wait for it...drum roll please)....BECAME OUR PROBLEM ANYWAY!
As for Asia, Japan was running on borrowed time having bit off more then she could chew.
The Japanese had to destroy our Pacific fleet and hope that we would weary and sue for peace.
They underestimated the U.S. resolve to fight a war to its conclusion no matter what the losses.
It is amazing what actually declaring a war will do to obtain victory.
>>>>>Like Germany declared war on the U.S.? Simple declaration of war has no bearing on the outcome of a war!
Sheesh if that were the only criteria of success or failure, we’d have every country “declaring” pre-emptive war on each other to get their FIRST!
I guess that is why we don’t do it anymore, we might actually have to win.
[ But drink that kool-aid! ]
Go learn some history.
>>>>>More projections only weaken your position.
Soooo now you’re flip-flopping and now saying global interventionism is a good thing?
Show us where TJ declared war on Barbary pirates...I’ll go pop some popcorn...
Now, what does that have to do with the fact that the United States underestimated both the N.Koreans when we disarmed the S.Koreans of their heavy weapons (so they would not invade the N. Korea) and then made a statement that Korea was not put of the United States defense zone, giving a green light for the N.Koreans to invade?
And the Chinese, when after repeated warnings from the Chinese, we continued to move North and stretch our supply lines and were completly exposed when the Chinese hit us during the bitter cold, dealing the U.S. one of its worst military defeats.
>>>>>More for the blah, blah, blah file.
LOL.....
BTW, Korea was a tie.
But I doubt you would vote for anyone who is not advocating nuking some part of the world.
>>>>>>By that logic I guess Paul and the rest of the blame America first crowd would hand over the keys to Osama!
But I doubt you would vote for anyone who is not advocating nuking some part of the world.
>>>>>>By that logic I guess Paul and the rest of the blame America first crowd would hand over the keys to the white house to Osama and institue sharia law!
And what has to do with the notion that Hitler was a direct threat to the United States?
Clearly, your ignorance has been exposed.
>>>>>Projecting makes your grave deeper, not more shallow...but drink the kool-aid, I’m popping more popcorn!
Just for kicks and grins...have you ever watched the history channel about some of Hitler’s weapons...? Like the strategic long range bombers designed to fly over the Atlantic that got shelved because the resources required for the eastern and western fronts disallowed continuation?
Both Germany and Japan had nuclear programs...again, which may have born fruit had we had a Paul running things “minding our own business...”
Not that I’m hoping for anything to penetrate your extraordinary bunker you’ve imposed upon yourself.
Jefferson was speaking of domestic freedom, not sending troops around the world to fight for other people.
>>>>Now all you have to do is reconcile that with the Barbary Pirates.
Hopefully paleoPaulie stays in the race through the convention so his Congressional constituents get a good snootful of the jerk and take away his Congressional nomination. Then he should run third party as the candidate of Al Qaeda, dope-smoking, no action against abortion, no action against perversion posing as marriage, etc., which will be irresistible to the worst 10% or so of the Demonrats, thus throwing the election to a patriotic and socially conservative GOP nominee.
Soooo....you paid some money as dues. Gee, a real hero.
Now they get to pay the price at leisure, whatever their nationality and wherever we choose to impose the price, and YOU get to pay for it too whether you have backbone or not.
>>>>>>>But but but...there’s no “declaration” by congress!
And Hitler couldn’t possibly have been a threat to the U.S.
And Thomas Jefferson was a patriot only when it came to the western hemisphere, just neveryoumind the barbary pirates!
And, and, and, if the U.S. simply reasoned with the unreasonable and we left the world to it’s own devices...we’d all be better off and rich!
And if you disagree with that, you’re pro-nuclear war and goofy!
Cause cause cause...well...
Ru Paul SAYS SO!
Now go read some history books!
There ya go! We are going to miss the paleodelusionals after they are run through the ciderpress.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.