"The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD--was begotten of his father, as we were of our fathers." ( Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115).
And if you keep reading, he talks about the Virgin birth.
Apparently, I must make it simple for you, we can Via Artificial insemination create a virgin birth today.
A man who fathers a child through artificial insemination is just as much the father of that Child as I am of mine which were fathered the "normal" way.
Jesus was Fathered by God thought the action of the Holy Ghost which over shadowed Mary (and we don't know the details, and I personally don't care) There was no Sex. Mormons have never used the word sex to describe what happened between the Holy Ghost and Mary, or God and Mary, etc, it is only those with a dirty mind who went there, I am sorry they have infected you with that image, stop spreading it, it's not true.
I know for a fact that you can not prove that from the Christian Scriptures. But I would welcome the opportunity to discuss it with you.
This should be fun.
God is the Father of All spirits.
Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
The Devil/Satan/Lucifer is a spirit.
Luke 9: 42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.
Jesus Christ is the son of God.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
So if your father has another male child, is this child of your father not your Brother?
Mormons believe this because it is in the Bible, we do not believe Satan has any special relationship with Jesus that we do not also possess (having spirits we are also God's children.
John 20: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Note that none of this makes any sense to someone who believes the trinity for their basic understanding of God is wrong and that is why Joseph smith was told the other Christian churches were teaching abominations.
Go ahead now, wrest the scriptures to find a way out of what they clearly say.
It may not be significant to you, but it is very significant to Christians.
By your private definition of Christians?
This is because it touches on the primary question of the New Testament, namely, Who is Jesus. Is he, as Mormons claim, a man who evolves into God (like all men can), or is he the unique, eternal God in the form of a man?
This is an important question, but people who believe on both sides are Christian, it's not your fault you were taught a dogma that conceals rather than reveals truth, and I am sure God will not hold it against you because of your ignorance, however, he will not reward you for being ignorant of him either.
What you find to be an "obscure doctrine" is central to all Christian belief.
Really? I thought Jesus Being the savior was central, oh, silly me. </sarc>
Have you considered the idea that it is shocking, not because it is misrepresented by others, but because, to anyone familiar with the Scriptures it is, in fact, shocking?
Yes, I have considered that, for all the time it deserved. Perceptions are not reality no matter how much you want yours to be.
This evidences a misunderstanding. The New Testament is full of example of people addressing and correcting error.
As I am addressing and Correcting you, however, I have never questioned your Faith, you have questioned mine, and that is unChristlike.
Paul got HOT about people who were trying to change or diminish the person or work of Jesus Christ.
Yep, he did, so? You are not an apostle of Jesus Christ, you are a believer on him. There is a difference, and apostle is called to the work by the laying on of hands by those in authority, just like happened in the Bible after Jesus left.
I have often thought the saying should be What Would Jesus Have Me Do, not What Would Jesus Do, for I am not him and what he would do and what I he would want me to do are different things. (prospective again)
Exposing erroneous beliefs is not unChristlike.
Nice double negative. Questioning another's belief in Jesus is unChristlike. If you want to correct belief, first accept what is correct, then talk about errors. For example, I was perfectly willing earlier in this post to point out scriptures that explain how Jesus and Lucifer are indeed brothers after a sense of the word. you asked. We Mormons often feel that your side has just told us we are not Christians so we have nothing to talk about. show me where Jesus said to do that.
While you are at it explain how a God who cannot lie deceives by appearing to Stephen as two people, and is continually talking about himself in the third person. Why would a God who is here to teach us about himself mislead like that?
Why doesn't the word Trinity appear in the Bible and the Word Godhead Does? (Godhead used to mean God the father, Christ and the Holy Ghost as separate entities) Arius was excommunicated for believing what we do about the Time of Nicea, Earlier, Hyppolytus taught it as church doctrine and refuted the theory that God and Christ were the same being. The evidence is clear for anyone who wants to look at the facts of history, that the "Christian" understanding of God has changed since the twelve apostles walked the earth.
DelphiUser, were you raised Mormon or did you convert from another set of beliefs?
The Short answer is yes. (Chuckle)
I was born within a year of my Mom and Dad Joining, so they were still learning about being a Mormon. I bear the names of the Two missionaries who baptized them. I also grew up in the Midwest with few or No Mormons in the towns we lived in. I had friends from many religions, and attended with them. I can count among my friends and relatives, Methodists, Calvinists, Pentecostals, Catholics, Atheists, RLDS, FLDS, and some Buddhists, nad more if I think about it, I have enjoyed religious discussions with all of them and consider all, but the atheist and Buddhists Christians, just like me. I even Graduated from a Buddhist Monastery while in Taiwan on my mission there. You could say that I have exposed myself to every religion I could, I enjoy studying religion, it fascinates me. The only thing I don't like about most religions is how people tend to try to force every body to share their faith because of their testimony. That's yours, it may not suit me any more than my glasses would suit you.
One of the things Chinese people would say that would frustrate most Missionaries to death was "All churches Teach people to do good, right?" (with the inference being that they are all therefore the same.) I could have a fun and educational discussion from there, but some of my my companions would want to run screaming from the room in frustration.
I'm curious, why did you ask the question, What bearing does it have on my beliefs now?