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To: Ichneumon

Ignorance is curable, but the afflicted has to want to be cured.

Very accurate in your case. Most anti-theists will look at a boatload of evidence, and dismiss it, because they approach said evidence with the circular logic of their pre-existing prejudices.

I won’t give you three examples, but I’ll give you three books, written by scientists and investigative journalists (originally an atheist who had an open mind to evidence), which detail the scientific evidence pointing to a Creator.

Rare Earth
Privileged Planet
The Case for a Creator

Let’s see if the “afflicted with ignorance” wants to be cured.


61 posted on 12/17/2007 5:54:04 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB; Ichneumon
Hmmm. I thought Ichneumon asked for your three best examples of how, in your words, "SCIENCE has been pointing to the existance of the Creator in every recent discovery of Universal origins and in the observation about the location of our Earth".

You respond with three BOOKS, without specifying any arguments, page numbers or even chapters therein, and then struttingly treat this a challenge on your part or a relevant response to Ichneumon's challenge.

Of course it is neither, as you well know. An invincible counter-challenge, like yours, is no answer and no challenge at all. Since you've already said you won't give specific examples, but only whole books, whatever Ichneumon or another correspondent may pick out of one of your books, guessing as to it's relevance, you can always claim that example is not what you intended.

That is assuming, however, that one even CAN EVEN BEGIN TO GUESS at what might be relevant, in these books, to supporting your expansive but vague claim of scientific vindication.

So far, in looking at the first book you list, much of which is available online here, I'm at a complete loss.

Rare Earth argues that life, especially complex life, and even more especially intelligent and technological life, is probably exceedingly rare in the universe.

Just in general this claim does nothing to "point to" (or away from) "the existance of the Creator." A Creator might have created a universe with abundant life, or rare life, either way. In a Godless universe (or one where God creates by natural law) life might have originated naturally and evolved commonly, or rarely, either way.

But when you consider the specifics of how this book argues its case, it rapidly becomes even more mysterious as to what support you imagine to find. The main arguments center on claims and findings that earth-like conditions are rare in the universe, and therefore that life is probably rare. IOW the book presumes that life originated naturally on Earth, and that life if it exists elsewhere would also had to have originated naturally, and therefore have required similar conditions in order to do so.

Therefore the actual arguments in the book seem to point AWAY FROM "the Creator," unless you want to reverse your petulant refusal to be specific and cite the particular arguments in this book that support your case. Otherwise, your having apparently failed with the first volume you cite, I don't see any reason we should continue to play your, "my case is made somewhere in this book, but I won't tell you where," game.

64 posted on 12/17/2007 11:44:54 AM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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