Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

CO gunman killed self
Breitbart.com ^ | Dec 11 02:47 PM US/Eastern | By JUDITH KOHLER

Posted on 12/11/2007 12:01:33 PM PST by ironwill

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) - The man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center died of a self-inflicted shotgun wound, police said Tuesday.

Matthew Murray, 24, was struck multiple times by a security officer at New Life Church Sunday but died after firing a single shot at himself, the El Paso County Coroner's Office concluded after an autopsy.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: assam; banglist; donutwatch; goldencompass; gungrabbers; mediabias; murray; newlifechurch; zogbyism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240241-254 next last
To: SpringheelJack
he was actually in a position to see Murray die

You don't need to see a shotgun fired to know it's different than a handgun.

I do note that the CNN story you linked doesn't really have the corner's statement, just a quote from it. No shotgun mentioned, and in fact that story is still saying "assault rifle".

221 posted on 12/11/2007 6:29:46 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: ironwill
Assam, a 42-year-old former Minneapolis police officer, said her faith allowed her to remain steady under pressure.

"It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," she said, her hands trembling as she recounted the shooting during a news conference.

This is the kind of officer they needed at Columbine.

222 posted on 12/11/2007 6:30:37 PM PST by Barnacle (Hunter 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: El Gato; eastforker

My sweet FRiend! New Year’s Resolution, not to be broken. I recall the day so well, like yesterday!


223 posted on 12/11/2007 6:34:40 PM PST by Froufrou
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 216 | View Replies]

To: oyez
I wholeheartedly support my local police. They are underpaid, overworked and are pawns of the upper management.

Funny, EMS guys are always pissing and whining about how little they get paid, but they continue doing the job.

Bottom line: the money isn't why they do the job, and it ain't for public spirit, either.

224 posted on 12/11/2007 8:03:03 PM PST by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies]

To: ironwill

Personally, I’m not sure I believe the cops at this point.

Sounds like an effort to discredit Assam and discredit the use of firearms by ordinary citizens to protect themselves.


225 posted on 12/11/2007 8:29:43 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IceColdConservative1
This is interesting as it goes along with my theory. I felt that when they wouldn'tlet him spend the night at YWAM he thought they were all phonies..then he goes to the church of the big phony of last year and took some of them out. A sick way to think, but I think it was what was going through his mind perhaps.
When men like Ted Haggart fall they take a lot of folks with them. It’s not only their soul going to eternal hell but the others who fall away from faith because of them. IMHO

'Zactly!

226 posted on 12/11/2007 8:41:24 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 203 | View Replies]

To: Dumb_Ox

“Comment #155 is kinda relevant for you guys, too.”

If you think I was trashing Ms. Assam...wrong.
I was only speculating on what might have gotten her fired; partly because
she said she’d “hit bottom” before becoming an observant Christian.
Whether she was fairly or unfairly fired in MN, to me the miracle-turn is
the WHOLE story of how this lady ended up in the right time, the
right place, and did the right thing. Thus saving more than a few lives.

I wouldn’t be suprised if her whole life-journey wouldn’t made a
decent bio-pic...the sort of inspirational type of movie you might
see Hollywood put out until The Sixties.


227 posted on 12/11/2007 9:52:21 PM PST by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 158 | View Replies]

To: Froufrou
Froufrou said: "You have to be able to say to yourself that you are willing to do what this woman did ..."

In NOT getting a license, you have to be able to say to yourself that you are willing to run and hide while a madman is killing innocent people, possibly including you and those you love.

228 posted on 12/11/2007 10:15:44 PM PST by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 146 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
Or she might not have remembered swearing. Do you remember every
time some $@%#)@ gets under your skin?


Of course.
The problem is that when the person doing the swearing has a
.357 Mag on their hip...it gets a bit more intense for the unarmed civilian.

I do cut the over-wound cop types plenty of slack. And never would think
of having one more than reprimanded for a single incident of
even fairly intense language.

Even the cops I've known that were a bit "over-wound" by and
large really did an admirable job of self-restraint even in
situations that might REQUIRE some cursing to get some idiot's attention.
229 posted on 12/11/2007 10:56:24 PM PST by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 214 | View Replies]

To: El Gato

I know, I have one! I was offering one possible explanation for why he wasnt instantly dead after being shot and like I said, I hadnt seen what caliber gun she had and hadnt heard anything about body armor until now.

Most folks dont realize that someone shot with a rifle is around 85% likely to die, whereas it is much lower around 25% or so with a handgun. I dont remember the exact percentage but I read it years ago and I was surprised at the huge difference.

The point is many firearms dont instantly do their work like in the movies, even if the person shot dies it wont always be instantly.

Either way, its a moot point, the thing is they are already trying to discredit this woman and what she did which was stop a domestic terrorist attack with her gun that they dont want her or us to own.


230 posted on 12/12/2007 5:14:35 AM PST by Michael Knight (Young loner in a dangerous world of liberals who operate above the law.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 212 | View Replies]

To: ironwill; All
...bottom line here, If for some ungodly reason anyone of us found ourselves unarmed and pinned down by some crazed gunman....we sure wouldn't be questioning her before or after her actions.
231 posted on 12/12/2007 5:18:10 AM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
No shotgun mentioned, and in fact that story is still saying "assault rifle".

Good point. Given that I've seen no direct quote from the coroner stating a shotgun was involved, I'm suspecting that's media misreporting too.

232 posted on 12/12/2007 6:41:07 AM PST by SpringheelJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 221 | View Replies]

To: basil

“Anybody who has taken another human life, even in self-defense, is forever changed.”

Agreed.

My father shot and killed a man in self defense. It was probably as “good” a self defense shooting as there ever was.

The guy was an escaped convicted murderer armed with a .45 cal pistol, and had stated his intention to kill my father.

Dad had occasional nightmares about it for the rest of his life. It does change a person, even when they know 100% that they did what they had to do.


233 posted on 12/12/2007 6:42:23 AM PST by EEDUDE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: ironwill

I am late to this thread; forgive me if I’m repeating something.

If this was a shotgun - how did he kill himself easily? Generally only handguns are convenient for that. It’s possible of course, but 1 would think in the heat of this kind of situation 1 couldn’t maneuver a shotgun very well to blow 1self away.


234 posted on 12/12/2007 6:48:43 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: William Tell

Your logic is not lost on me. My immediate thought is that if we can be so cavalier about taking life by way of Roe v. Wade then shooting someone in self defense or defense of others, as soldiers do, should follow.

But, does it? I live in San Antonio and I hear that many soldiers who’ve been injured in Iraq are devastated by their experiences. It’s got to be [words escape me...]


235 posted on 12/12/2007 7:54:39 AM PST by Froufrou
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 228 | View Replies]

To: Froufrou
Froufrou said: "My immediate thought is that if we can be so cavalier about taking life ..."

I certainly don't see anything "cavalier" about carrying a concealed firearm.

A firearm is a tool. Like a fire extinquisher or a defibrillator, if the tool is present when needed and there is a person trained sufficiently in its use, it can save innocent lives that would otherwise be lost.

Nobody that I know of purchases a fire extinquisher because they want to have a fire or because they enjoy fighting fires. Instead, they are driven by the risk of not having the extinguisher available when it would be the best tool. A stove-top grease fire can be quenched in seconds rather than allowing it to consume a major part of one's home while waiting for the fire department to respond.

Some reports of this incident include a description of one man begging other armed people, who are described as taking no action, to let him have their gun. The point is that even if you never have the intention of firing the gun, other innocent people can take advantage of the availability of the tool.

If I lived in a "shall issue" state I would encourage my wife to carry in her purse, with the expectation that I would be the one to use that gun, time permitting. It's just a tool. Having it does not obligate one to take any particular action with it. Not having it DOES obligate one to find some other solution to a potential problem.

236 posted on 12/12/2007 11:13:41 AM PST by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: William Tell

Your points are well taken. And, many FReepers here witnessed my being instructed in the proper way on firearm usage back on April 19, earlier this year. I’m just not accustomed to the kick from a glock and I may not get to be. And if I can’t then I won’t be able get the CCL, unless I try a Bersa 380.


237 posted on 12/12/2007 11:16:56 AM PST by Froufrou
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 236 | View Replies]

To: Froufrou
Froufrou said: "... I hear that many soldiers who’ve been injured in Iraq are devastated by their experiences."

Though true, there is little likelihood that such soldiers would have been less devastated had they been unarmed at the time that they were injured.

Some say that the first rule of gunfighting is "Have a gun". But a better first rule is, "If you have a choice of whether to go to a gun fight, DON'T GO!"

Several years ago I had a need to visit a person in south central Sacramento. The person I was visiting assured me that the police don't patrol that area and won't stop people violating traffic laws. After dark, the streets and parking lots belong to the drug dealers.

I considered taking a gun with me. But that would violate my preferred version of the First Rule, "Don't go!". I did decide that it was safe enough carrying just a stun gun.

Soldiers don't have a choice in carrying out their duties. Innocent victims of madmen like the one in this incident don't have a choice either. Most of the critical decisions are made by the criminal and imposed on other people. These people are then further limited by decisions they made prior to the commission of the crime, based on provably over-optimistic assessments of the threat level.

238 posted on 12/12/2007 11:31:28 AM PST by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies]

To: Froufrou
Froufrou said: "I’m just not accustomed to the kick from a glock and I may not get to be. And if I can’t then I won’t be able get the CCL, unless I try a Bersa 380."

At the risk of hijacking this thread, let's look at your situation.

The "kick" of a gun is the result of the reaction of the gun to the expanding gases which expel the bullet. Somewhat counter-intuitively, there will tend to be less perceived recoil when firing a heavy gun, given a particular cartridge and barrel length.

If you choose a very small, and thus very light, Glock and you fire a powerful cartridge, then you will feel a good kick. If you choose a larger gun firing a less powerful round, then the kick will be much less.

To reduce the kick the most, choose the heaviest gun possible for any given cartridge. The trade-off, of course, then becomes that the heavier, and thus larger, gun is more difficult to conceal.

I think Smith and Wesson makes a titanium revolver in .357 magnum that weighs less than a pound. That's probably going to sting a lot when fired, making practice with it unpleasant.

The opposite situation would be getting a full size steel gun in a less powerful cartridge.

I've also read that the "blow-back" designs, which I believe includes the Bersa 380, have to have heavier springs to hold the chamber closed without it being locked. This makes the slide harder to operate for someone with smaller hands and also makes the recoil feel sharper. There is a subjective element to recoil.

What sort of qualification testing are you faced with that the recoil would be of such concern? The problem I have read about is one of not being willing to practice due to unpleasant recoil. But I haven't run across that as a problem in qualifying.

239 posted on 12/12/2007 12:52:43 PM PST by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 237 | View Replies]

To: VeniVidiVici
Maybe there is a gene abnormality out there.

It's an excellent bet that the perp in any mass shooting these days will be dressed in black....

240 posted on 12/12/2007 12:58:36 PM PST by r9etb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 181-200201-220221-240241-254 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson