Memories of Pearl Harbor still fresh, 66 years later

New Hampshire Union Leader ^ | December 7, 2007 | John Clayton

[ConservativeStatement]

THE WORN AND TATTERED copy of the Honolulu Star Bulletin was there on the dining room table.

The paper was from Dec. 7, 1941.

In years past, on this date, copies of that same newspaper were set out in dens and kitchens and living rooms all over America, as those who survived the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor reflected back upon the horror of that day.

It happens less often these days.

[getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL]

My husband's grandfather died during this:

[metesky]

Uncle Walter. You know he made up that "most trusted man in America" with a roomful of Walter Durant type "journalists" engaging in a late night "brainstorming" session".

In retrospect it's been going on a lot longer than we think.

One thing I still love about the old timers, right and left, is that when they got together they drank whiskey and strong coffee and smoked tobacco, not pizza and power drinks like the modern pols and propagandists.

[colorado tanker]

Excellent post!

It's also worth noting that Germany and Italy had nothing to do with the Pearl Harbor attack, they merely shared the same fascist philosophy and aggressive attitude toward the Western democracies, but we still fought them and made their defeat number one on the to-do list over defeating Japan.

[SunkenCiv]

Cable / satellite TV isn’t worth whatever people pay for it, particularly with broadband. Of course, if broadband isn’t an option, that could be a problem. Unless there’s dialup... :’) I don’t blame you one bit for being tinkled off.

[SunkenCiv]

Great! and apropos Patton quote!

[SunkenCiv]

Germany was a greater threat than Japan, but apparently like you I’m pretty sure the decision of V-E first was a politically motivated one. The Japanese were in a similar situation, that of being stretched across a big chunk of Asia, involved in a massive land war for years before Pearl Harbor. Also, the enemy code system was cracked in both cases. The Germans generally had better strategy, but like the Japanese were more of a land war power. Japanese strategy in their side of the Pacific war worked against the British and Dutch, but didn’t work worth a damn against the US Navy and Marines and some of the commanders we were lucky to have in that theater. Another thing that didn’t work in the Japanese favor was the lack of British interference in the conduct of the Pacific war; we were the only big guns in the fight, and got exactly what we wanted. That was definitely not the case in the Europe and Med theater.

[colorado tanker]

Another thing that didn’t work in the Japanese favor was the lack of British interference in the conduct of the Pacific war; we were the only big guns in the fight, and got exactly what we wanted. That was definitely not the case in the Europe and Med theater.

Excellent point. In the Pacific we could be nimble and imaginative with the island hopping strategy bypassing many big but strategically less important Japanese bases.

In Europe we were stuck with the stupid idea of fighting up the entire Italian peninsula, mountain by mountain, and with the broad front approach after D-Day that produced such gems as the completely unnecessary but extremely bloody Hurtgen Forest campaign.

[SunkenCiv]

Churchill also (for political reasons, but perhaps as much for some odd personal reason) removed troops and capabilities from N Africa on the verge of victory there, in order to vainly pursue the defense of Greece against the Germans. It delayed Axis defeat in N Africa by at least a year, and of course likewise delayed implementation of Churchill’s ridiculous “soft underbelly” strategy in Europe, which was, in Italy, as you pointed out some of the most difficult and costly fighting of the war.

[SunkenCiv]

seems like a good reason to post this again:

Autumn, 1942: It came down to one Marine, and one ship
Source: Enter Stage Right - A Journal of Modern Conservatism
Published: October 23, 2000 Author: Vin Suprynowicz
Posted on 10/23/2000 10:11:29 PDT by gordgekko
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39f47141497d.htm

[VOA]

bump

[dalereed]

My wife considers 12/7 her personal Pearl Harbor day.

Thats the day I took my first flying lesson over 30 years ago.

[colorado tanker]

Rick Atkinson's second volume is out, on the Italian campaign, and I'm curious what his take is. I really liked his first, An Army At Dawn.

[Snoopers-868th]

Meanwhile, most Americans are out right now shopping for all the Chinese-made Christmas gifts they can carry home. They're sending American dollars to the Chicoms that will be spent to build a huge military machine and a strong mercantilist economy to challenge America's future. Am I the only one who remembers pre-WWII American scrap metal sold to Japan coming back at us in the form of bombs, bullets and bayonets?

I agree but for the life of me WHAT IS THE ANSWER? The Republican Platform supports trade, elitests support exporting the jobs for the highest bottom line, big business supports cheap labor for their stockholders whether it be via use of illegals or exporting the jobs.

We still have American citizens who are willing to work for a living but they certainly need to make a living they can raise a family on without housing 20 per room. And don't tell me education. Education is not for everyone and the more that are educated supply and demand make education less valuable.

The Republican Party does not address the want to be productive American and their problems. The only ones being address are those who contribute little, or nothing to society and are supported via the well known "safety net". What choice do the Americans who want to work have but to turn Liberals to exist? I wish someone would answer this question with an answer other than they need to work 2 or 3 jobs while at the same time the party makes things nice for the ones that fill their pockets at these peoples expense.

I truly am confused about the Republican Platform anymore. Americans should not have to get passports and go to work in third world countries to support a family. It is just plain wrong.

[SunkenCiv]

If memory serves, Churchill had the gall to make a somewhat disdainful metaphor regarding the Italian campaign. Of course, overall, I like Churchill, he certainly towered over a good many politicians of his time (which make his occasional stupidity and vanity particularly frustrating to contemplate). A book you may enjoy, “The Desert Generals”, was written with very little reference to the US forces in the Africa campaign, it’s superb.

[PzLdr]

The Germans are legendary for their mastery of the operational level of warfare, but strategically? No way. the Japanese, on the other hand, fufilled their strategic goals within the first six months of going to war. Their problems started whenthey faced the inevitable “what next?”. the Coral Sea and Midway operations only came into being when the Japanese sought to go beyond their original offensives.

[PzLdr]

He did it twice! The second time came after Rommel was driven back after ‘Crusader’ in ‘41. The troops Churchill pulled out that time wound up surrendering to the Japanese in Singapore. The replacements got hammered by the Afrika Korps in the opening moves of their offensive on their way to Egypt - and El Alamein.

[PzLdr]

Corelli Barnett. Loved his description of Monty -”take a sledgehammer to crack a walnut”...

[SunkenCiv]

:')

The Germans are legendary for their mastery of the operational level of warfare, but strategically? No way.

The two front nightmare was a blunder, but hey, cut 'em some slack, they only did it twice in 25 years. Hitler fought the war like a proverbial bus driver -- the driver can't possibly keep his schedule if he has to stop to pick up passengers.

[SunkenCiv]

Heh... one illustration of that, p 274 vs p 287 (this is in the enlarged edition).

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks colorado tanker.

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Army at Dawn: The War in Africa 1942-1943 by Rick Atkinson	The Day of Battle: The War in Sicily and Italy 1943-1944 by Rick Atkinson

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