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To: Dionysius
Funny how searches are only “unreasonable” when they snare the guilty.

Actually they are even more "unreasonable" when they are conducted on the "innocent". Secondly if the LEO's did thier job properly they would not have to worry about a case/arrest being thrown out due to "unreasonable search and seizure".

Refusing a search affords instantaneous probable cause for the warrant, provided the stop is legal.

False, refusing consent is not in and of it self probable cause. This has been determined by the courts.

An innocent civilian has nothing to fear and his/her personal safety is enhanced by the process

An "innocent" civilian has every right to fear this as it is an abuse of power under colour of authority ... our Founding Fathers clearly "feared" this enough to include it in the Bill of Rights... also "personal safety" is NOT "enhanced by the process", I would argue that it is actually undermined by police wasting time/resources for the search when they could be better used...

By the by, how is iPods for votes an apt comparison?

In your original post you stated...
"Problem is, they can keep you hanging around infinitum until they get a warrant. So, if you’ve got nothing to hide. why not?"
.... so what you advocated was the voluntary relinquishment of your Constitional Right for the sake of convienience... in the same way that those students were willing give up their right to vote for the "convienience" of getting a free Ipod... heck what you advocate may even be worse, at least they would get "somthing", all you do is "save time" ....

149 posted on 11/29/2007 10:05:07 AM PST by SubGeniusX (The People have Unenumerated Rights, The Government does not have Unenumerated Powers!)
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To: SubGeniusX

Ah, you so glibly provide a posthumous voice for the founding fathers, but I hear more SubgeniusX than Thomas Jefferson in the chorus. I guess you also believe that the Fathers would condone pornography and seditious tirades in time of war as free speech. I sincerely believe that they would not consider these (rare) searches as “unreasonable” given the present state of lawlessness in the country. I also don’t believe that these search requests are routinely made absent some degree of suspicious behavior or circumstances as the ACLU and the activist authoress of the article would have us believe. As for the other points, see my post at 151. Rights of any kind aren’t absolute.


165 posted on 11/29/2007 10:41:26 AM PST by Dionysius (Jingoism is no vice.)
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To: SubGeniusX
False, refusing consent is not in and of it self probable cause. This has been determined by the courts.

You have to be careful what you write. Those two sentences together come off like the Second Amendment! It would still not be probable cause, even if the courts had ruled otherwise. ;-)

285 posted on 12/03/2007 5:39:42 AM PST by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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