Posted on 11/28/2007 8:28:48 PM PST by Eddie01
COLUMBIA, South Carolina (CNN) – Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee criticized the Confederate flag, which happens to be hoisted on the Statehouse grounds in the early primary state of South Carolina.
[snip]
Both candidates are front-runners in South Carolina. Both may have to answer questions about those comments next time they hit the state.
[end]
(Excerpt) Read more at politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com ...
May I ask where that photo of the flag is from?
It appears to be the Cherokee Mounted Rifles flag.
the main-SLIME media will NOT let us have LIBERTY on such issues, as freedom does NOT "sell soap powder"!
free dixie,sw
This topic has no place in a presidential debate.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/29/romney-thompson-criticize-confederate-flag/
Back up under new link.
Hank, I did not say you cant hoist a confederate flag or the Pakistani flag. You can do as you wish at your home. But why
should any such flags be displayed PROMINENTLY at a PUBLIC facility?
How is this this is important in a presidential election?
Thanks for the link.
The flag the Southern Cherokee fought under is similar to the photo you posted, except the Cherokee had “Cherokee Braves’ on theirs. The 5 stars in the center signified the 5 civilized tribes.
http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/Cherokee/CherokeeBravesBattleFlag.htm
Ha, I just realized I said American Flag and not Confederate Flag.
It was a late night last night.
------
That isn't for you or I to answer, is it? I mean, if, say the citizens of Alabama want to fly that over their statehouse, that should be their choice, right?
Hank
The flag should be able to fly! Rap music is not illegal however, this type of music is more offensive than a flag and not one person is trying to ban rap music. Im sick and tired of the usa trying to legislate peoples feelings. So what if people dont like the flag. We dont live in communist russia we live in america. Its a flag get over it!
what South Carolinians choose to do (or NOT do) in SC is no one else's business but that of SC.
as for me & my house we choose to exercise our FREEDOM.
free dixie,sw
it's about: can the federal government "GO AWAY & leave us ALONE" or not.
what the people/state government of SC does or does not do is for the PEOPLE of SC to decide. (further, THAT is PRECISELY what the candidates SHOULD have said.)
free dixie,sw
Has the federal government tried to ban the flag in S.C.? I know about the NAACP and the state legislature vote, but I wasn’t aware that the federal government had tried to ban it.
fwiw, there are actually TWO southern Cherokee Battleflags.
the one you posted the picture of
and
"a solid red banner with superimposed upon it,the image of the Big Dipper constellation, with seven-pointed stars."
there is also a "Peace Flag", which is a solid white banner with 7 red (seven pointed) stars in the shape of the Big Dipper. (the Peace Flag has not & will not be flown again, until dixie & the Cherokee Nation is FREE.)
free dixie,sw
fwiw, hardly ANYBODY in SC cares what the "naaLcp" does or doesn't do. the "leadership" of that organization has been throughly exposed as INEFFECTIVE, RACIST & DISHONEST, despite the "best efforts of "the SOCIALIST state" & "the news-LESS courier".
free dixie,sw
Yep.
One of the flags was found on the battle field of Wilson’s Creek in Missouri (Aug, 1861, IIRC) and is at a local museum. That’s on my to see list when I get back that way again. BTW, I’ve gotten a photo of a younger Stand Watie. The usual ones are seen are of him near the end of his life.
Here’s a snip about Wilson’s Creek from the book I’m working on.
[snip]Union forces suffered their two most devastating early defeats at the Battle of Bull Run near Manassas, Virginia and Wilson Creek within days of each other. Called The Battle of Oak Hills by the Confederates, Brigadier General Ben McCulloch, commander of the Southern army at Wilson’s Creek was a leader in the Texas Rangers and fought in the Battle of San Jacinto. Having been put in command of the Indian Territory in May of 1861, he obtained the pledge of the Cherokees to fight for the Confederacy. McCulloch would be seen in battle wearing his preferred suit of black velvet instead of a military uniform.
Brigadier General Nathaniel Lyon, age forty-three ,a veteran of the Seminole and Mexican Wars, was named commander of the Federal forces at Wilson’s Creek. Lyon was a Unionist and a strong supporter of Lincoln and the Republican Party.
By the end of July, when troops under General McCulloch rendezvoused , the total Confederate force in the area exceeded twelve thousand men. Lyon, hoping to surprise the Confederates, marched from Springfield on August First.
Despite being vastly outnumbered, Lyon decided to attack the Confederate encampment in a surprise assault. Lyon ordered 1,200 men to swing wide to the south, flanking the Confederates, while the main body of troops attacked from the north. McCulloch could have succeeded in a massive advance against Lyon but for the lack of ammunition held by the confederates that day. McCulloch relayed, “We have an average of only twenty-five rounds of ammunition to the man and no more to be had short of Fort Smith and Baton Rouge.”
McCulloch was not impressed with the Missouri troops under General Price’s command and noted they were “ undisciplined, commanded mostly by incompetent and inexperienced politicians, and possessed only a poor mix of weapons and equipment.” If the battle were to be won, the burden of victory would be on the Texans and Cherokees.
Farm families of Gibson and Short who lived near the impending battle, took shelter in the root cellars of their homes. Most of the Southern cavalry camped on Sharps property while his home and land suffered damage during the battle. The E.B. Short family was surprised during breakfast when the battle began as General Lyon staged his wagons near the Short’s springhouse.
At dawn, on the morning of the Tenth of August, Lyon’s attack caught the Southerners off guard, driving them back and overrunning several Confederate camps allowing them to occupy a ridge that became known as “Bloody Hill.” A Rebel Arkansas Battery was able to halt the advance and give the infantry time to form a battle line on the opposite slope as Waties volunteers withheld the charge to maintain a position in battle until reinforcements arrived.
William Penn Adair was there, along with Cornelius Boudinot, both having been described with their long black hair blowing in the charge wind of battle. Always beside Watie was Jim Bell and other loyal Southern Rights Party adherents like John Benge, killed at Wilson’s Creek, the first Cherokee of the Civil War to lose his life . Benge was the ancestral namesake of another Cherokee wagon master who led one of the more successful goups on the Trail of Tears. A least a dozen of the Benge family fought throughout the war for the Cherokee volunteers.
Fighting was often hand to hand and with constant charges and countercharges by units on each side in a battle that lasted more than five hours. Three hours into the melee, General Lyon had already been twice wounded, then as he led a countercharge was fatally wounded on Bloody Hill becoming the first Union general to die in battle during the Civil War. A Major assumed command of the Federals but their ammunition was nearly used and a hasty with drawl to Springfield was soon ordered.
The Union forces being vastly outnumbered, counted deaths at two hundred fifty-eight and casualties of twenty-four percent of their troops after the battle. They had not counted on the numbers the Confederates produced including Watie’s unit. Confederates counted killed at two hundred seventy-nine; a twelve percent casualty rate. Because of this victory they were able to control Missouri the first year of the war . Wilson’s Creek proved to be one of the most brutal battles either army would face. Particularly disconcerting to Union troops was the war cry the Cherokee soldiers employed combined with the battle cry of the Rebels.
Local farmer C.B. Manley allowed Missouri and Arkansas troops to camp on his land and offered the family cemetery as a temporary resting place for the dead confederates. It must have been an amazing logistical feat to accomplish the return of bodies of the fallen soldiers to their homes, often many miles away, after such battles. Surprisingly that was the norm throughout the war.
A Cherokee Mounted Volunteers Flag was found left on the battlefield by a local farmer and is on display in a local museum today. Watie and his troops did not carry the Confederate Flag, but the banner of the ‘Cherokee Braves’, with a circle of five red stars signifying the five civilized tribes. They fought for the Cherokee Nation’s independence and the survival of their people.
Days after the battle, General Fremont of Union forces, by then returned to base at St. Louis, relayed his impression of the battle in a dispatch to Washington:
“General Lyon, in three columns....attacked the enemy at 6:30 o’clock on the morning of the 10th, 9 miles southeast of Springfield. Engagement severe. Our lose about 800 killed and wounded. General Lyon killed in charge at head of his column. Our force 8,000, including 2,000 Home Guards. Muster roll reported taken from the enemy 23,000, including regiments from Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi, with Texan Rangers and Cherokee half-breeds. This statement corroborated by prisoners. Their loss reported heavy, including Generals McCulloch and Price..... Their tents and wagons destroyed in the action...... need aid of some organized force to repel the enemy, reported advancing on other points in considerable strength.”
There are at least a few inconsistencies with other historical records in Fremont’s report. The figure of twenty-three thousand confederate troops is wildly exaggerated. It may have seemed like that many fresh rebels ready for war to Yankee soldiers who were greatly outnumbered. The Confederacy, like the Union, had not recruited near the numbers that they later would and they did not present with these high numbers in future conflicts. His words do convey the concern of “ considerable strength” the Rebels now earned from the Union. Lincoln and the Federal leaders had looked at this ‘troublesome little rebellion’ as something that their many volunteers would squelch within ninety days. They must have all known at this point there would be no short or simple struggle.
Brigadier General Benjamin McCulloch, in fact, lived to fight future battles alongside the Cherokee Braves and finally at the Battle of Pea Ridge the following March in Arkansas.
free dixie HUGS,sw
CNN obvioulsy had this article written in ADVANCE of the debate.
The CNN fraud scandal continues.
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