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Posted on 11/27/2007 6:15:36 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
PASADENA, TEXAS -- When he saw two men pry into his neighbor's house with a crowbar one afternoon earlier this month, Joe Horn did what many people would do: He called 911.
But when police had not shown up by the time the suspects were about to leave, the 61-year-old retiree did something most people probably would not: He stepped outside with his 12-gauge shotgun and killed them.
"I'm not going to let them get away with this," Horn told the 911 dispatcher, who responded: "Property's not worth killing someone over."
Seconds later, the sound of a gun being loaded could be heard on the 911 tape, followed by a warning -- "Move [and] you're dead" -- and then three bursts of gunfire. Miguel DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of whom had small-time criminal histories, died of their wounds.
The six-minute recording of Horn's anger, frustration and eagerness to take the law into his own hands has made him the focus of a national controversy. Critics condemn him as a vigilante bent on meting out murderous justice. Admirers praise him as a courageous hero whom any law abider would love to have next door.
"Why is he still a free man?" Linda E. Edwards wrote in a letter to the Houston Chronicle.
"Joe Horn gets a Texas 'attaboy' from me," countered John E. Meagher in the next letter. "Justice was served, law or not."
As the debate rages on talk radio and cable-TV news shows, Horn remains free.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
I am not saying he didn't mean it...just saying that you should not jump to that absolute conclusion.
Witnesses indicate that these two men immediately came at the older man when he ordered them to stop. If that is the case, and they were committing a crime at night in Texas, he had the justification to shoot them in his own defense. Actually, in Texas, the defense justification is understood during the commission of such a crime at night.
Chances are, if he had not done so at that popint, we'd be reading his obituary.
I had to break into a neighbor’s home one time too. This neighbor had some mental problems and got arrested on a Thursday. By Sunday, she was still in custody, and we knew there was a dog in the house that had no food or water. We called the police, but they wouldn’t do anything until 72 hours had passed since we called them about the issue (not since her arrest - so it would be five or six days the dog would have been in there with no food). Several of us neighbors got together and found a window in the back that would open, and I climbed in and fed the dog and gave it water.
I’m glad I didn’t get shot coming back out the window.
By the way, this woman was truly disturbed. Her house had piles of garbage everywhere and NO furniture at all, other than the mattress sitting on the floor in the upstairs bedroom where the dog was. Seriously, not one piece of furniture in the whole house other than that, and she’d been living there for about a year. We think she was selling drugs and prostituting herself in that house.
I really hope so. But I have an ugly feeling that if the prosecuters don’t get him the trial lawyers will.
Sorry, but where I come from, “I’m gonna kill ‘em” means I’M GOING TO KILL THEM. It doesn’t mean anything else. He wasn’t saying it the way you’d say “I could kill you” to your best friend when he plays a practical joke on you. He said he was going to kill the burglars. He meant it. He walked outside and gave a joke of a warning and then did just that.
Not that it matters, but since you brought it up, "Lambright said Horn was upstairs working at a computer about 2 p.m. when he heard the sound of breaking glass next door. Horn called 911, engaging in a protracted conversation with the dispatcher, who repeatedly advised him to wait inside until police arrived."
Don't shoot the messenger and you certainly don't have to believe everything you read, here is the link to the article that notes the time of day- Pasadena man remorseful about killings captured on 911 call, attorney says.
Actually, what you are is an idiot who ignores the relevant facts---he told them to halt and they continued to advance on him (verified by eyewitness), so he commenced fire. I'd have done exactly the same.
interesting comment. I agree. Each profession has risks. Burglars have to assume the risks of someone killing them. Unfortunately, in some states they have reduced that risk, thus the increase in burglars.
Yeah, all those pesky cops, judges and juries just get in the way.
More and more of this will get out - police not responding to 911 calls so the citizens will do what the police will not do. I had an instance a couple years ago where people were setting off rocket fire crackers at the community pier - right next to our house. Now, people may say this is no big thing, but one - we live next to woods that are dry because of drought and two - we have filled gas cans in the car port. I did not want a fire or any other accidental damage. Anyway, I called the police - twice - and no one ever showed.
I agree. I have told many people before that anyone pulls a gun on me is God as far as I’m concerned. It amazes me when criminals and other idiots argue with cops and others with firearms.
>> He called the cops and since they didn’t respond immediately, as a citizen, he has the right to defend property and make citizens arrest.
It wasn’t his fault the criminals didn’t surrender and ran. Give the man a medal! <<
You’re asserting they ran? My understanding was no self-respecting Texan would ever shoot someone in the back. Maybe I’m just too old-fashioned, but his only defense would seem to be that they charged him in response.
Puerto Rican Criminals in Texas, huh? I wouldn’t presume that any ID they had would be valid, legitimate ID.
>> the other had documentation indicating he may have been from Puerto Rico, Colombia or the Dominican Republic, Corbett said. <<
And all three are based on legitimate ID, no?
I think he was fully justified, but he really hurt his argument with the 911 tape. He came across as blood-thirsty and the anti-gun types are looking for a fight over this one.
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but shouldn’t you fire the gun only when the theif is coming at you? If they are running away and not a threat at that point, it seems unjustified to kill for robbery. Police will chase down a criminal and arrest them, not shoot them as they are fleeing. I don’t know in this case, maybe the two men ran towards the man...seems unlikely since he was aiming a shotgun at them. I just don’t think trying to keep the goods from being stolen in ample cause for killing them.
They had it coming. Screw em.
From the article
Seconds later, the sound of a gun being loaded could be heard on the 911 tape, followed by a warning -- "Move [and] you're dead" -- and then three bursts of gunfire.
So, they were shot once each but there were three bursts of gunfire.
I wonder where that other burst came from?
Possibly the perps?
If you've ever had your house broken into you would know that burglary isn't a "minor property crime." It is more akin to a less severe form of rape. You will never feel secure afterward.
Under Texas law, you can shoot a guy who is running away if he is carrying your stolen property (and you have no reasonable expectation of recovery of the property or something like that).
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