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To: UCANSEE2
Why did the driver do everything possible to provoke the officer into taking him to jail?”

This is a fair question. One that I have touched on earlier, but will do again.

I think this guy, Massey, is pretty inexperienced in dealing with police. He seemed to think that he did nothing wrong, and could convince the officer of this if he could just talk sense to him. That's just not the way it works.

I certainly would not have behaved the way he did. And, I have used this video as an instruction to my two sons on what NOT to do.

I believe.. Massey thought signing the ticket was an admission of guilt. Never, did we hear anything different from him. And, he didn't want to do that. He had the mistaken opinion that 'not signing' would make a difference. Gardner never told him anything different.

I expect the COP to know better. He should know that it doesn't matter.. He should get back on the side of the road and make some more money for Utah... uh... I mean, protect the invisible road workers some more. Not waste time and resources hauling a belligerent pansy to a magistrate.

No matter how you put this... This cop made a quick decision (after he was interupted) that he didn't like this guy, and he was going to teach him a lesson.

Ok... some cops are like that. Maybe, most... I used to not think so. But, after this long chain of posts... I'm not so sure anymore.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on whether or not an arrest was justified. I have never said the cop was not within HIS rights to arrest the driver. Clearly, this was a LEGAL decision... I just maintain, it was a stupid decision.. based 100% on ego, not any real or perceived threat to the public.

Once this decision was made, things just headed south... quickly. I still maintain the cop was WAY TO QUICK to draw his weapon and take the aggressive approach. However, once the guy was tased... I actually think his later actions were ok... He seemed to calm down.. and, get more in control. Right up until the time he started lying to the other officer. But, hey.. that's "normal", huh?

406 posted on 11/24/2007 6:38:28 PM PST by SomeCallMeTim
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To: SomeCallMeTim
He had the mistaken opinion that 'not signing' would make a difference. Gardner never told him anything different.

The half dozen times that I've gotten a ticket, the cop has ALWAYS told me, "Signature is not an admission of guilt, it's merely an acknowledgment that you'll appear in court or waive that and pay the ticket. That's all explained on the back." VERY standard spiel, you'd expect a 14 year veteran to have that down pat.

As far as the taser, once the driver turned and starting walking back toward his vehicle while simultaneously going for his pockets after being told to step up to the front of the car and put hands behind his back, that's all the justification the cop needs for the taser use. His level of belligerence was really a factor. With moving traffic pretty close by, tasing him was probably safer than going hands-on with him to stop him from getting back in the vehicle. It's a lot more dangerous for both people to be wrestling on the ground.

Having said that, I would expect a 14 year veteran to know better what to say to a person getting amped-up on them. When the guy originally didn't want to show license and registration after being asked twice and wife was getting all lippy, too, all the cop had to say was, "OK, we'll just arrest and book you as John Doe until we can find out who you really are." That will usually get a guy digging for his license pretty quick and I'd expect a 14 year veteran to know that little trick.

The cop could've also told him that he's arrestable for not signing the ticket, which he is under Utah law. Once out of the car, the cop also could've told the guy that he's arrestable for disorderly conduct, and saying, "Hey, let's be cool and keep this on the level of a ticket instead of an arrest." A lot of times, that will cool a guy down. It may not have worked, but it's worth a shot and the cop would better be able to say he did what he could before the situation went south.

431 posted on 11/25/2007 7:31:13 AM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity (Oh, the huge manatee!!!)
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