Posted on 11/22/2007 7:37:13 AM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Now, what are you smoking? : )
“You have no excuse for not appearing in court.”
What date/time/location will he be responsible for appearing in court in, if he doesn’t take the ticket?
He would have to call to UPD to try and find out. Usually, they are not very helpful if you don’t have a ticket number.
I appreciate your responses, and I think we have narrowed down this whole escapade to the very nitty-gritty of the two sides in this case.
You have your opinion, and I have mine, and what happens to Massey/Gardner in court will likely have little to do with what is really RIGHT/WRONG, and nothing to do with the side you and I have chosen.
The irony is that we will likely never even know how this case turns out.
Here’s to the hope that it does help limit abuse of tasers by police, and educates drivers who have had little experience with the law so they don’t get themselves into a similar situation (which could have been much worse, like you have pointed out).
Well... this is why he physically has to TAKE THE TICKET... whether he signs it, or not. Either way, the courts don't really care. The DRIVER is expected to find out the place and time to be.... it no longer matters to the officer.
Once again... I must disagree with you! :-) (Sorry!) I think, we WILL hear how this turns out. The public will be interested in this case... because, MOST PEOPLE can reasonably see themselves in Massey's position.
That said... I do agree... that this case may be helpful in instructing BOTH SIDES (cops and public) what they SHOULD do, and SHOULD NOT do. I must tell you..... it has PAINED me, throughout this discussion, to defend Massey. I think he's a Smart-ass ... and, I'd probably like to punch him, if I was the cop. But, I do NOT believe he was threatening, or outside of his RIGHTS... to be asking what he was... right up until he said, "I'm not signing anything"... That's the point where I would have changed course with him.
Anyway.... I've enjoyed the discussion.... if you check my record, this is.. BY FAR.. the longest argument I've ever had on ANY subject. I can't say why... it's certainly NOT the most important to me.... Just, interested me at a time, when I HAD time to argue... I guess...
just for the record... as one who had paid close attention to the video.. and, the subsequent information... I detected another “discrepancy” in Massey’s statements...
On the video, Massey says, “I’ve never had a ticket”.
In his television interview... he says, “It’d been several years since I’d had a ticket”. A minor difference.... and, not terribly unexpected... but, one indication that Massey was not being “entirely truthfull” as he was being victimized.
Sounds good to me.
“It must have seemed apparent to the reporter that Massey was being ‘arrested’.”
The reporter wasn’t there, is not an authority, and as a reporter has less credibility than a 2nd grader.
“The speculation that the officer thought he made it abundantly clear, could also be an excuse on the officer’s side, in court.”
THe FACT that he lied to the other officer will outweigh any excuses.
“I DO NOT believe that an officer has to state “you are under arrest” to be able to place you in handcuffs. They don’t even have to be charging you with a violating the law.”
Agreed but he should tell you what he’s doing before tasering you.
“The officer could have handcuffed the wife when she stepped out of the vehicle, for her safety and his own.”
He could have. But it would be further proof of his initial mistakes and inability to manage the situation without using force.
Where are you getting that???
My opinion is that Massey understood what was meant by the phrase, but had decided to get away from what he considered to be an out-of-control cop.
It's getting tedious having to correct your numerous misstatements on this thread.
If the officer had said the "arrest" phrase, if Massey still ignored him, or continued to argue, would the officer have been "right" in tasering him at that point?
On a busy highway, and not having looked back to check for oncoming traffic - absolutely not. Had Massey approached him in a belligerent manner, then the officer would have a case.
However, Massey was walking away when he was tased. The officer was not being threatened. The worst you can credibly say is that his instructions were not being obeyed.
That is not a justification for endangering someone's life.
Looks like there's another diagreement about the audio portion. Did the officer state such a thing?
I never heard him state or even imply that their behavior was strange. If that was the case why did the officer turn his back to him? Cuff him as soon as he had him get out of the car? Call for backup?
This is news to me. Either someone is making up stuff to help the officer or the officer is attempting a little CYA. When was this claim made?
Sounds like baloney.
The only instance I'm aware of is post #475 on this thread.
I hear you. I certainly haven’t heard it in the audio or seen any indication in the video. I’m going to be hearing this youtube vid in my sleep though.
” My opinion is that Massey understood what was meant by the phrase, ...but had decided to get away... from what he considered to be an out-of-control cop.”
“However, Massey was walking away when he was tased. “
CASE CLOSED.
Apparently the reporter understood what the words “Turn around and put your hands behind your back” means.
Massey , and many of his supporters on this thread, IIRC, even you, appear not to understand that phrase.
Even a 2nd grader knows what those words mean.
There is a new thread on this where Massey admits he POSTED the video, and that he is sick of people who are attacking the officer for this. Whatcha think about that?????
“Well... this is why he physically has to TAKE THE TICKET... whether he signs it, or not. “
Based on his repeated delay in giving the officer his license, registration
..on his refusal to sign
..on his not listening to anything the officer was saying.
..on telling the officer “No. I tell you what we’re gonna do, we are...”
..on his being told twice to turn around, four times to put his hands behind his back
What makes you think he would take the ticket????
He refused everything else.
Too bad online betting is verboten. I'd bet a hefty sum on "CASE OPEN".
_______________________________
Now that others have weighed in, are you standing by your claim in post #475 that the officer stated the couple's behavior was strange?
If so, what was the time in the video, and what were the officer's words?
“Massey , and many of his supporters on this thread, IIRC, even you, appear not to understand that phrase. Even a 2nd grader knows what those words mean.”
Do those words comply with the law? Oops you don’t seem to care about the actual law.
“There is a new thread on this where Massey admits he POSTED the video, and that he is sick of people who are attacking the officer for this. Whatcha think about that?????”
I think the same thing I’ve thought since first reading it. Massey is an idiot. Of course he posted the video.
The point isn’t about Massey, its about the officer failing to control the situation and then haveing to resort to violence. If Massey had charged the officer then the officer would have been justified in tasering him. That didn’t happen and this officer prooved he is not only incompetent but is a liar.
Whacha ya think about that!!!!???
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if Massey posted the video. But his thoughts & opinions are irrelevant. (assuming what you say is true) It doesn’t alter the point. This is about an officer of the law abusing the power given to him & further eroding the public trust. Massey’s alleged opinions matter about as much as a flea passing gas in the moonlight.
Tim, don’t quit when you’re WAY ahead!
Oh my! You said CASE CLOSED! I guess that settles it. You come into a thread and make all kinds of false and misleading comments, and then you think you can gloss over all of that with a pithy little comment like this.
The facts of this case are pretty clear, despite all your attempts to muddy the waters.
Massey should have shut his mouth and signed the ticket. His ignorance of the law that requires him to sign the ticket or face potential arrest is no excuse.
The officer should have acted like a professional law enforcement officer with communication skills instead of a taser-jockey eager to take someone for a ride. Had he done so from the start of the traffic stop, I have no doubt Massey would have ended up signing the ticket and going on about his business. Because the officer chose to escalate the situation, it got out of hand.
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