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To: Badeye
He, and many many others believed the South had a right to ‘succeed’ from the Union, based on their interpretation of the Constitution.

An interpretation which he learned at West Point while studying the Constitution from Joseph Story's gold-standard textbook (at the time).

26 posted on 11/19/2007 10:42:29 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Conservatives - Freedom WITH responsibility; Libertarians - Freedom FROM responsibility)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

Yep.


41 posted on 11/19/2007 10:50:38 AM PST by Badeye (That Karma thing keeps coming around, eh Sally? (chuckle))
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
An interpretation which he learned at West Point while studying the Constitution from Joseph Story's gold-standard textbook (at the time).

The same Story who said:

" The constitution of the United States, then, forms a government, not a league; and whether it be formed by compact between the states or in any other manner, its character is the same. It is a government, in which all the people are represented, which operates directly on the people individually, not upon the states; they retained all the power they did not grant. But each state having expressly parted with so many powers, as to constitute jointly with the other states a single nation, cannot from that period possess any right to secede, because such secession does not break a league, but destroys the unity of a nation; and any injury to that unity is not only a breach, which would result from the contravention of a compact; but it is an offence against the whole Union To say, that any state may at pleasure secede from the Union, is to say, that the United States were not a nation; because it would be a solecism to contend, that any part or a nation might dissolve its connexion with the other parts, to their injury or ruin, without committing any offence. Secession, like any other revolutionary act, may be morally justified by the extremity of oppression; but to call it a constitutional right, is confounding the meaning of terms; and can only be done through gross error, or to deceive those, who are willing to assert a right, but would pause before 'they made a revolution, or incur the penalties consequent on a failure."

You're probably thinking of William Rawle, whose book did allow for the possiblity of secession, and which was used for one year (1826) at West Point.

47 posted on 11/19/2007 11:01:00 AM PST by Bubba Ho-Tep
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
An interpretation which he learned at West Point while studying the Constitution from Joseph Story's gold-standard textbook (at the time).

I think you're confusing Joseph Story with William Rawle, and Rawle's book wasn't written when Davis was at West Point.

58 posted on 11/19/2007 11:08:16 AM PST by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus; Badeye
Badeye wrote:

He, and many many others believed the South had a right to ‘succeed’ from the Union, based on their interpretation of the Constitution.

And TQC responded:

An interpretation which he learned at West Point while studying the Constitution from Joseph Story's gold-standard textbook (at the time).

To which Badeye said:

Yep

I quote from Joseph Story's Commentary, Chapter XV, paragraph 1096, footnote 91 in which he approvingly quotes President Jackson:

"The constitution of the United States, then, forms a government, not a league; and whether it be formed by compact between the states or in any other manner, its character is the same. It is a government, in which all the people are represented, which operates directly on the people individually, not upon the states; they retained all the power they did not grant. But each state having expressly parted with so many powers, as to constitute jointly with the other states a single nation, cannot from that period possess any right to secede, because such secession does not break a league, but destroys the unity of a nation; and any injury to that unity is not only a breach, which would result from the contravention of a compact; but it is an offence against the whole Union To say, that any state may at pleasure secede from the Union, is to say, that the United States were not a nation; because it would be a solecism to contend, that any part or a nation might dissolve its connexion with the other parts, to their injury or ruin, without committing any offence. Secession, like any other revolutionary act, may be morally justified by the extremity of oppression; but to call it a constitutional right, is confounding the meaning of terms; and can only be done through gross error, or to deceive those, who are willing to assert a right, but would pause before 'they made a revolution, or incur the penalties consequent on a failure.

"Because the Union was formed by compact, it is said the parties to that compact may, when they feel themselves aggrieved, depart from it; but it is precisely because it is a compact, that they cannot. A compact is an agreement, or binding obligation. It may, by its terms, have a sanction or penalty for its breach, or it may not. If it contains no sanction, it may be broken with no other consequence, than moral guilt: if it have a sanction, then the breach incurs the designated or implied penalty. A league between independent nations, generally, has no sanction, other than a moral one; or, if it should contain a penalty, as there is no common superior, it cannot be enforced. A government, on the contrary, always has a sanction, express or implied; and in our case, it is both necessarily implied, and expressly given. An attempt by force of arms to destroy a government, is an offence, by whatever means the constitutional compact may have been formed; and such. government has the right, by the law of self-defence, to pass acts for punishing the offender, unless that right is modified, restrained, or resumed by the constitutional act. In our system, although it is modified in the case of treason, yet authority is expressly given to pass all laws necessary to carry its powers into effect, and under this grant provision has been made for punishing acts, which obstruct the due administration or the laws."

87 posted on 11/19/2007 11:26:57 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I happen to have read Justice Joseph Story’s textbook on the Constitution just several months ago. Fascinating! But I don’t recall anything in there encouraging or contemplating secession of states from the Union. Story was a federalist from Massachusetts, a Harvard Law professor and long-term US Supreme Court justice who died in 1845.


175 posted on 11/19/2007 1:32:46 PM PST by justiceseeker93
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