Posted on 11/15/2007 12:05:00 PM PST by smoothsailing
Ohioan wrote:
The ADL is a Fabian Socialist operation that derives its justification for existence by seizing every opportunity to create ill feeling against Jews for gross overreaches such as this, and then smearing those who react. (See Creating Hate In America Today.)
NOw, a couple points here. The US does not own the word "dollar". The word "dollar" comes from "Thaler", a German silver mine that produced its product in coins of uniform weight, so accurate that they became a trading standard. Under US law, a dollar is legally defined as 371.25 grains of silver, or 24.75 grains of gold. The paper notes originally issued by the treasury were merely claim checks for the real dollars held in the bank vaults. Therefore, under the definition of the dollar in use when the United States started issuing money, the Liberty Dollar is far more real than the paper notes issued by the Federal Reserve.
In the end, commerce occurs when two people agree to trade items of value, and so long as both parties are in agreement, the government should mind its own business.
Of course, the issue here isn't protecting the "real" money but protecting the fake scrip being issued by the Federal Reserve, because when you hold a Liberty Dollar made of silver, you control the value of that money, but fiat scrip issued by the Federal Reserve can be re-valued at whim by the banks or by the government.
More about real versus fiat money HERE - M. R.
Also check the links in title and at end.
This is today's.
Feds Shut Down Precious Metal Backed Alternative Currency
This was nothing but an excuse to steal private citizen's money. The biggest most dangerlous criminals in the world are those who are stealing Americans money and property under the cover of "law."
Hank
At least this much appears to have been confirmed independently by the staff of the newspaper which put out this article, so it's not quite ONLY the e-mail as a source that something occurred here.
Note that in the upper righthand corner, it plainly states: "May be used as legal tender only at Disneyland Park, Disneyland Hotel," yaddah yaddah yaddah.
... and, again, please note the complete and utter lack of any such notice, anywhere on either side of the "Liberty Coin" pictured upthread.
Sounds like the feds were interested mainly in shutting down a garden variety scam, in which people were being duped into forking over money which they actually can use as legal tender anywhere in the US and many foreign countries, in exchange for certificates purporting to backed by a certain amount of silver which happened to worth only half the face value of the certificates.
In addition there was no way for purchasers to ascertain that silver or other precious metals were owned or in the possession of the issuing group in amounts sufficient to cover the number of certificates issued (which also would never be verifiable by the purchasers), or would continue to be (it’s not like the stash couldn’t have been stolen, and never recovered, even if the issuer really intended the whole project to be on the up and up), or could be retrieved by the certificate purchasers if and when they decided they’d rather have the silver than the certificates. And it appears this guy may have already taken payment in US currency for a great quantity of these certificates that had not yet been delivered to the purchasers.
For all the shortcomings of the Federal Reserve system, its currency is a heck of a lot safer than anything issued in a scheme like the subject of this raid. I’m glad the feds are shutting down operations that are duping people into thinking otherwise.
If the $20 Ron Paul campaign coin is going for $52 on EBay, that would be a pretty strong motive for the EMail.
Worth noting, from their webpage, which is working fine
"The Ron Paul Dollar is certainly different," said Jeff Kotchounian, a collector in Michigan. "For me, it's a great way to popularize Ron Paul and get him elected!"Von NotHaus, the fiery "freemarketeer" behind the Ron Paul Dollar, observes, "It will be interesting to see if enough people are fed up with politics, Bush regime, and the war to take Congressman Paul seriously. Certainly the Ron Paul Dollar is as unique as the Candidate and the election itself. Do the majority of Americans really want to change Washington? Time will tell."
Von NotHaus stresses urgency as the political parties have moved up the primary elections, squeezing campaigning time to only eight more months. If people want to change things, they must make a donation to Ron's campaign, get a Ron Paul Dollar and support him right now.
All this will be a big surprise to Dr. Paul. As Liberty Dollar's legal counsel pointed out, if Ron Paul's campaign was informed before the launch date, the Federal Election Commission could require profits in excess of $2,300 (the maximum individual donation allowed) to be distributed to the Republican Party! So the Ron Paul Dollar was created as an "independent contribution" and is distributed through the grassroots Volunteer Network.
As von NotHaus explains, "Even though I know and respect Ron Paul for his free market philosophy, I did not take his campaign seriously until our mutual friend G. Edward Griffin mentioned his support. It got me thinking about how I could support Ron's campaign, then Nic Leobold suggested a Ron Paul Dollar and the project took off."
IMPORTANT: If you don't do anything else, please link your site to www.RonPaulDollar.com site to enhance the site's rating with Google. Thanks!
I'm wondering just how these "campaign contributions" work.
Since you addressed none of the information in MNJohnnie’s post, I assume it’s factually correct.
________________________________________________________
I find this comment absurd. Anytime I trade anything to one of my friends or neighbors it also does not include the notice that it is not legal tender.
The idea that a private company cannot SELL silver or any other precious metal does not make sense. There are many companies that have gold, silver, copper, or other precious metals in vaults and they sell certificates for the metal in their vaults. You own it they store it. It is too heavy to ship and it is not secure in your basement.
But this company does not only do that, (store your silver) they will actually sell you the silver and let you store it yourself or trade it like money. I have a step-son that likes to leave them for tips in resturants. Yes the silver has a denomination on it but so does a gallon of gasoline, what is the difference? The $10 silver coins he bought several years are worth considerably more than $10 now. Silver is trading at about $15 an oz now.
No one counterfeited anything. The Liberty Dollar looks nothing like a US dollar and couldn’t be mistaken for one by anyone. If the US want’s to claim a copyright on the word “Dollar” they might want to notify Canada first.
It is entirely possible this is some sort of scam, with a false statement of a Federal raid to explain the disappearance of the gold and silver, as well as the records. Bernard von NotHaus (Is that his real name?) may already be in Costa Rica or some other safe haven in a country without an extradition treaty by now. In any case, it stretches credulity that the company lacked a backup site for its data records, something you are taught in Information Technology 101.
It's an independent expenditure contribution. I used some gasoline last night to deliver some yard signs that a few different people wanted for my favored Republican candidate, and the price of that gasoline and the value of my time does not count as a campaign contribution that I must report to the FEC.
_______________________________________________________
What Scam. You order silver, you get silver just like hundreds of other companies on the web. Go to your jewelry store and see if they don’t have a wide variety of silver gold coins that they will sell you. They will tell you just how much pure metal they contain and they will have a value. You pay the posted price tag and you get the coin.
In this case the Government acted too soon. If they thought this company was doing something wrong why didn’t they go to court and get a ruling BEFORE they shut them down. Where is the right to DUE PROCESS.
________________________________________________________
I know these people, it is entire legit, and the story is correct.
The sliver and gold ETF’s are effectively paper against real gold, if that’s what you want. And they are traded on the major stock markets, by reputable organizations.
This raid seems heavy handed. Why could this not have been handled with a simple summons and specific charges?
A simple summons and specific charges leaves the target unintimidated and able to rise to his own defense.
The people who ordered and paid for these certificates did NOT get silver or any other precious metal. They got a piece of paper which somebody told them was “backed” by a certain amount of silver in a warehouse, and also told them was “legal tender”. There was no control over the relationship between the amount of silver actually in a warehouse and the total amount of silver represented by all the certificates, nor any control over whether any silver that might have been in the warehouse at the time a certificate was sold would still be there when the certficate buyer decided to go get it in exchange for the certificate. Nor were the certificates “legal tender” in any way shape or form. Anyone trying to pay for anything with these certificates would find out immediately that they were worthless, since nobody except a few other kooks will give you anything of value for them.
I’m sure the FBI had gone to court and obtained a warrant. The most likely route for the FBI having become involved in the first place was a complaint from someone (probably a lot of people) who had bought some of the certificates and then tried unsuccessfuly to get their silver.
The quickest cure for people who think these privately run currency schemes are legitimate, is to actually sink some of their real money that they really need into one of the schemes.
Do you know for a fact that the rather vague statement in the sales pitch refers to the buyers independent expenditure? That's not at all clear to me, in fact based on their statement that the contributions revert to the Republican Party if Paul is aware of the effort, I'd assume they're financial contributions. A portion of my purchase price could revert to the GOP, your gasoline and time can't. And if not reported, there's no basis for reversion.
How is the company organized? If a corporation, not worth my time to look, I don't believe they can make independent expenditures.
I can see a lot of potential problems here, including the question of whether this company is taking deposits and/or selling securities. I presume they've dotted their i's and crossed their t's
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.