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To: valkyry1
"I am trying to leave it as wide open as I can for you. I am trying to get you to see how many assumptions your ideas are based on, and I wonder how many of you fellows have ever really analyzed those assumptions."

Have you analyzed the assumptions your belief system is based on?

"A molecule has neither the energy nor the volition to ‘self replicate’"

Volition has nothing to do with it, molecule creation is based on energy levels. Energy availability is ubiquitous.

Have you brought your assurance that molecules cannot replicate to the attention of Dr. Julius Rebek, Jr, Dr M Reza Ghadiri, Dr. Guntr KieDrwski, or other of the many scientists who have developed self-replicating molecules or are actively researching in the area? If not, here is your chance.

Simple replicating molecules are likely to have played a critical role in the origin of life. Recent experiments show that non-enzymatic replication is conceivable in a wide range of synthetic chemical systems. The challenge now facing these studies is how to develop information-coding systems from simple prebiotic precursors. Leslie E. Orgel

Remember, that if you are claiming that self replicating molecules are impossible, as you just did, it only requires a single conceivable path, based on known physics, to indicate you are wrong and one instance to definitively prove you wrong. I listed 3 scientists who have done just that.

260 posted on 11/09/2007 9:32:50 AM PST by b_sharp ("Science without intelligence is lame, religion without personal integrity is reprehensible"-Sealion)
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To: b_sharp

[[Have you brought your assurance that molecules cannot replicate to the attention of Dr. Julius Rebek, Jr, Dr M Reza Ghadiri, Dr. Guntr KieDrwski, or other of the many scientists who have developed self-replicating molecules or are actively researching in the area? If not, here is your chance]]

Technically, they are ‘self’ replicating- they rely on forces to replicate- forces that their DESIGN are capable of utilizing. Replications are duplicates of their selves, but no, they aren’t ‘self’ replicating. “Self’ replicating implies that they are capable of producing hte energy themselves to replicate themselves. A point must be made here that the energy needed for true macroevolution would be so destructive that it would annihilate any organisms right from the start- The experiments to ‘create’ molecules from chemicals failed miserably in that they had to so isolate the cells from the energy needed to create them in the first place, that it was an unrealistic model of dynamic real world experiences. As well, they had to isolate the wrong left handed amino acids from hte right hand ones because the combining of the two destroyed the ones needed to create viable amino acids capable of existing in highly controlled lab environments. Just a little diddy that not many people are aware of when discussing the ‘amino acids from chemical’ experiments that were carried out for decades.


262 posted on 11/09/2007 10:46:01 AM PST by CottShop
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To: b_sharp
Dr. Julius Rebek, Jr, Dr M Reza Ghadiri, Dr. Guntr KieDrwski

Dr. Rebek’s findings were made in 1990

I googled these guys. And what I found was that many a paper has been written on these topics by these men, and those papers have been cited by others.

However some scientists agree with them, and others do not. And also this compound made by Dr. Julius Rebek Jr., a chemist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and his team, they hypothesize that it self replicates. And then this quote by

Dr Ghadiri: None of the molecules that have been made would sustain themselves (be able to continue self-replication) in an environment outside of the chemical reactions under which they are able to self-replicate, says Dr Ghadiri. These molecules, he says, are themselves chemical reactions. They just happen to be self-replicating molecules that mimic one of the processes -- self-replication -- that is found in what we call living organisms.

Other answers for what happens in that process may later be found, such as a more simpler answer that a reaction is started in a chloroform solution containing the exact amounts of the reactants, which in turn produces amino adenosine triacid ester (AATE) until all the reactants are used up. For instance, there may be an unknown/unmeasurable contaminate which acts as a catalyst to kick the reaction off.

267 posted on 11/09/2007 2:46:13 PM PST by valkyry1
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