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To: GunRunner
Hmmm, don't think so. Trees as a sacred tradition pre-date Christian Europe.

Christmas trees have nothing to do with asherim. Asherim were worshipped, Christmas trees are simple decorations.

The ancient Germans worshipped groves of trees as sacred and believed that trespassing in the sacred groves would bring death.

Saint Boniface, the Apostle of Germany, evangelized the Germans by taking an ax, striding right into the middle of the sacred grove, chopping down one of the sacred trees and dragging it back to his home - an act of unbelievable profanity to the pagans.

Yet the "gods" of the grove did not strike him down.

It is to commemorate Boniface's victory over this superstition that German Christians traditionally chopped down trees to celebrate the clearing of pagan darkness and the coming of the Christ child. And, as an American Christian who happens to be of Germanic extraction, I will continue my ancestral tradition of thumbing my nose at the false gods of the pagans.

89 posted on 10/30/2007 1:59:32 PM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: wideawake

Yeshua never even told us to celebrate His birthday.


90 posted on 10/30/2007 2:01:37 PM PDT by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one BYJ movie at a time! (http://www.byj.co.kr))
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To: wideawake
I'm glad you find Christmas trees Christian.

Just know that many Christians disagree with you and see them as a pagan symbol, including the person I originally posted the comment to. They quote the passage from Jeremiah and say its idol worship and a pagan holdover from Scandinavian and Germanic tribes.

91 posted on 10/30/2007 2:06:02 PM PDT by GunRunner (Thompson 2008 - Security, Unity, Prosperity)
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To: wideawake

Well that explains the origin of a German carol like ‘O’ Tannenbaum’.


97 posted on 10/30/2007 2:17:59 PM PDT by Borges
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To: wideawake
And Halloween is exactly the same in origin, though not in practice. All Saints day (Nov. 1) originated early in the Church precisely at this time of year to remind Christians of 1 Cor 15: our destiny is life not death. At a time of year when the "dying" of the natural cycle is on all minds in temperate climates, Christians proclaimed the presence of the believers in heaven (saints, those made holy by the blood of Christ and worshiping constantly in heaven).

All great feasts had vigils the night before. Sure there were pagan practices associated with this date/time of year. That's exactly why a Christian holiday was substituted. This was a tried and true method of evangelization, pioneered by Gregory the Wonderworker in what is now Turkey (Asia Minor) in the 200s, producing the first majority Christian culture precisely because he deliberately plopped Christian festivals on pagan holidays.

Christmas was just the opposite. It appears that the Emperor Aurelia invented the Festival of the Unconquered Sun" and plopped it on the winter solstice to compete with the growing Christian "menace"--more and more Christians of more and more upstanding status in society were threatening the hold of the old Roman gods on the culture.

As long as the culture was majority Christian, harmless pranks, soaping windows, trick-or-treating etc. practiced by Christians who clearly knew the difference between occult practices and the Truth, could be tolerated. Real pagan survivals did exist and if you read the letters of Christian bishops and missionaries and the canon laws in the conversion stages of western and northern Europe you see them trying to stamp out these pagan survivals, which largely succeeded by ca. 1100 or 1200 in most (not all) places.

Now that our culture is paganized and people openly and genuinely pursue the occult and black magic and gory and macabre (even CSI tv programs dwell on the macabre, which is a mark of a repaganizing culture--sex alone is not enough to sell the product, one has to go for more and more gore, more and more Death, a byproduct of abortion for 35 years), some of the practices surrounding Halloween do need to be reassessed. But instead of falsely claiming it is a pagan festival, Christians should reclaim it as the Eve of All Saints, celebrate saints lives etc. in programs for kids, avoid the slutty, macabre aspects. But trick-or-treating can be done without any of that objectionable stuff and if done that way, has nothing whatsoever to do with paganism. It's a social custom, one of many such customs of going door to door to one's neighbors either bringing gifts or receiving gifts. Our much bigger problem is the destruction of neighborhoods and neighborliness.

The foolish Christians who simply write Halloween off as totally pagan are uninformed and have a cure worse than the disease. They should put their energy instead into finding ways to restore neighborliness, learn to celebrate their Christian brothers and sisters in heaven, especially the great heroes of the faith, and make the night and the next day memorable for kids. Holidays are crucial to culture. You have to work at keeping them Christian but if you do, it creates a Christian world for the next generation.

It may have to be done largely with parties for Christian kids within the Church community since our culture is rapidly becoming pagan. But one could do that and still take the kids trick-or-treating to whatever degree it can be done safely and memorably wherever one lives.

Anyone who simply says it's a pagan holiday doesn't know what he's talking about. It can be celebrated devilishly in worship of Death and the netherworld or it can be celebrated Christianly, just like just about everything else.

Take back the night, we who know the True Daystar.

107 posted on 10/30/2007 3:14:55 PM PDT by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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To: wideawake

Wow, I never knew that!


108 posted on 10/30/2007 3:25:53 PM PDT by denfurb (proud Mama, 6 girls and 1 boy)
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