Posted on 10/29/2007 8:28:33 AM PDT by Invisigoth
The Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Mormons and a few other faiths have three things in common – they believe in Jesus Christ, that He is the Son of God and that He died and was resurrected for our sins.
So what’s the problem?
The political pundits continue to try and make Mitt Romney’s religious beliefs a big issue as he runs for the Republican presidential nomination. Different denominations of Christianity are just that – different denominations – which means different worship practices of the same fundamental Christian beliefs.
Some people have commented that they cannot support Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon. When they are pressed to explain why that is objectionable, they stutter. Still others are skeptical of Mitt Romney based solely on hearsay or lack of knowledge about Mormons.
(Excerpt) Read more at northstarwriters.com ...
|
Membership
Missions Missionaries Missionary Training Centers Temples Congregations Universities & Schools Seminary Students Enrollment Institute Students Enrollment Family History Centers Number of Countries with Family History Centers Countries Receiving Humanitarian Aid Humanitarian Cash Donations Since 1985 Value of Humanitarian Material Assistance Since 1985 Welfare Service Missionaries (Including Humanitarian Service Missionaries) Languages Church Curriculum Available |
12,868,606
344 53,000 17 124 27,475 4 362,756 358,516 over 4500 70 163 $201 million $705 million 3,552 178 |
The recent violent events in downtown Pioneer Park – long a haven for the city’s homeless and drug dealers – which occurred just as city police launched new efforts to stem criminal activity once again reminds us that effective, comprehensive downtown planning requires city officials to do a far better job in dealing with the issue of homelessness. That includes guiding the broad spectrum of community and business leaders toward effective combinations of regulatory and nonregulatory actions.
Fortunately, nearby local business owners who’ve done yeoman’s work in cultivating an increasingly vibrant climate to bring customers downtown have been generously patient even as they often wrestle directly with occasional uncomfortable and difficult interactions involving panhandlers, homeless individuals, and drug users and dealers.
Pioneer Park also serves as the home during the summer and early fall months for the Farmer’s Market as well as a few other community events. While vigorous law enforcement measures help in the short term, they do not address concerns for a long-term approach that should ensure no harm for the homeless population in general.
The next mayor has to be an effective catalyst and facilitator who encourages ongoing relationships with social service providers and a positively-framed administrative approach that’s directed toward making affordable housing more widely available rather than focusing primarily or exclusively upon specific behaviors that potentially displace the homeless from using public spaces.
The current candidates could do better. Dave Buhler (Republican) endorses surveillance cameras for the troubled park. Ralph Becker (Democrat) endorses a virtually constant presence of law enforcement in the park. The audacity in recent crime, though, hardly reflects any perceptible impact of those measures.
Before venturing forth with a few recommendations, let me offer some important background for the purposes of context. First, homeless individuals should not be confused for panhandlers, who by their chronic nature of rude (in your face) interruptions can have a chilling effect on downtown business and for those of us who live and work downtown. Often, people tend to romanticize this aspect and this should be actively discouraged because the homeless and panhandling populations are actually making us quite confused and conflicted about the money and programs that are dedicated to providing services to those dispossessed. Indeed, the persistently homeless population includes those with mental illnesses and substance abuse problems as well as those who’ve found idiosyncratically their comfort zones, so to speak, and are, therefore, resistant to change. However, there is a significant portion of the homeless population who actively seek to change their lot so public and private social service agencies are doing important work and need our ongoing support. I would argue that few panhandlers – but not all – are actually homeless, based on my empirical observations over the seven years I’ve been in Salt Lake City.
On the other hand, if we are going to have an aggressive crackdown on panhandlers – which would bar them from outdoor cafes, ATMs, and similar locations – we also need a positive balancing effect in which city officials and downtown merchants would collaborate on a citizen anti-panhandling campaign to give money and in-kind donations instead to organizations that deal directly with homelessness.
Punitive measures alone are hardly wise. A good place to start is to establish a systematic and frequent channel of public dialogue that keeps these issues persistently in the mind of the community. A forum, for example, on the shortage of affordable housing would be a good place to start. This would establish good visibility and credibility for the agencies that deal with accommodating the homeless population. So would regular meetings with the city police to assess and discuss the presence and behaviors of people in downtown public spaces – involving downtown merchants, Chamber of Commerce representatives, downtown residential property owners and representatives from social agencies as well as members of the homeless population. This dialogue potentially establishes the critical pretext that any measures do not inadvertently and unfairly punish the homeless. This is significant because most services for the homeless are located inside the boundaries of the downtown business district.
And, the threat of criminal punishment alone certainly does not guarantee, for example, that an alcoholic person will stop drinking in public. As we firm up urban plans, we need to factor in a mechanism that makes it easier to get the authority for obtaining the necessary resources to establish adequate rehabilitation, treatment, and recovery services. We also need to be much more careful about not permitting developers and city planners to unduly exercise their powers without getting meaningful input from citizens and from those stakeholders who deal directly with the homeless.
A mayor who envisions a vibrant downtown district cannot ignore what seems to be a clearly intractable problem at the moment. A mayor can do a lot by articulating a grand vision ultimately cultivated and realized through the coordinated tasks and activities of the municipal offices, divisions, departments, and agencies. Therefore, a vision that encompasses working with service providers, educating the community, and collaborating with planners and developers to increase affordable housing will be a solid start.
It is not enough for local officials to ask their citizens to be more tolerant or to engage in symbolic, often meaningless, posturing of political correctness. There certainly is plenty of stereotyping rhetoric around and often what should be a meaningful debate quickly disintegrates into defensive communication on both sides of the issue. Public awareness can be substantive and ultimately corrective, if approached judiciously. A mayor who catalyzes the discussion and keeps the issue in the minds of community stakeholders will then do a great deal in reducing the intolerance toward the homeless and in giving them the respect they deserve just as the rest of us here in Salt Lake City.
“This country needs a president who has a sensible, common sense solution or idea for the tier one issues that we face. National security in our fight against Islamic fascism, sustaining the positive growth of our economy, market-based incentives to make our health care system more affordable and accessible, restructuring a dysfunctional social security system, replacing an outdated and unfair federal tax code, and harnessing the unbridled growth of government and entitlement spending.”
In my opinion this is what we should be discussing. I am a person of faith but I do not vote based on JUST what someone's faith tradition is or is not.
Perhaps because the name of the article AND the thread is:
Mitt Romney is a Mormon and I am a Baptist: Get Over It!
Ya think?
Well if all anyone ever reads is the name of the article, which I believe is more and more true. HOW SAD!
Perhaps it's a matter of most people staying on topic? There are all kinds of post on FR addressing your concerns about " “This country needs a president who has a sensible, common sense solution or idea for the tier one issues that we face. National security in our fight against Islamic fascism, sustaining the positive growth of our economy, market-based incentives to make our health care system more affordable and accessible, restructuring a dysfunctional social security system, replacing an outdated and unfair federal tax code, and harnessing the unbridled growth of government and entitlement spending.”
I wonder why one would click on this particular thread if those were his concerns?
There was no 14 year old widow with children. Period.
She was just a teenager who still lived with her parents. And continued to do so after JS had his way with her. So he didn’t house her or provide for her.
Somebodies needs to do some reading or rereading.
As I recall from the minutes of Jesus’ first board meeting in His new High-rise Temple Complex, the first thing He said was, “We need a chain of these things.” And the second was “I don’t care how many divisions this company has, just as long as we don’t open a branch in Utah.”
It’s a good thing the other religions of the world don’t suffer from sectarianism or the world would be caught in a gathering shi@storm that would make it seem like the beginning of the END.
Okay, n00b, translate that so we have no doubt what your intended message was.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
All I am doing is asking to do the same thing that you, and many others, want me to do . You want me to be like you.
In this world, there are many more people who are not Christians, then there are people who are Christians.
Like you, there are many of these people who want to teach you and me that we are wrong. They want us to be like they are, like you want me to be like you.
Now, you say I must listen to your beliefs so I can change to your way, but that you have no interest in listening to the evidences and proofs by those who believe other then you and want you to believe like they do.
How unfair and narrow minded.
Yes, how narrow minded of me to oppose a fool who touts the spirit of antioChrist in a Roman soldier as means to sow doubt among Christians in order to empower the cult in which he dwells.
Thanks for the insult.
Feel like following that up with some live fire?
Or maybe a nice little IED.
(you) Yeah, I know modern science tells you it is a chemical imbalance, but the Good Book has all the prescription you need for emotional pain - -if you put your faith in Him and it. I’m pryaing for you fproy. Turn it over to God, then let it go.
++++++++++++++++=
(me)Are you telling me, that you believe that there is no illness of the body that has depression and anxiety as the outcome?
(you)Nope. Go fix your chemical imbalance if that is indeed what you have. The go to God to save your life.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==
It is time for some education. You may except it or not.
“Depression” is one of those words that has so many meanings it is hard understand what the person using it is really saying.
You can have depression on Monday if your football teem lost on Sunday. It is over by Tuesday.
You can have depression after a loved one died. This is called grief and can last for weeks or months.
These are both examples of situational depression.
Then there is depression caused by a handicap on the inside the body. Like some one who is born without an arm has a handicap on the outside of there body, a person with a chemical imbalance has a handicap on the inside of the body. It is never over.
The handicap of no arm is easy to see and people praise how well they functions in a world designed for two arms.
There is very little praise for the person who has to fight what is going on inside his head, the problems are real and the effort to overcome it is real.
When you said to me “…the Good Book has all the prescription you need for emotional pain - -if you put your faith in Him and it…” you were right and wrong. I would like to see you walk up to a person who was born without an arm and tell him that the Good Book has all the prescription he needs for having no arm - -if you put your faith in Him and it, He will grow you one.
I know that God can grow the arm, but I have never seen or heard of Him doing it.
Major depression is an real illness, caused by a rean inborn handicap inside the body.
++++++++++++++++=
Sounds good, but untrue. Go back to 769 and read what I really said.
It is only fair that if you want me to listen to you because you disagree with me; that you should be willing listen to those who disagree with you. Or is this another case of do as I say, not what I do?
The foundations of Mormonism are lies and fabrication that have been proven fabrications from imagination of one Joseph Smith. The book of mormon can not stand up against archaeology or genetics.
++++++++++++++++=
You do know that there are writings by an eye witness who knew Jesus and Marry and also knew who the roman solider who really fathered jesus, He also has first hand knowledge as to how Marry lied to her husband to be so he would still take her to be hi wife.
By this account of a first hand witness, your church and your savior are all something made up by the mother of a basterd. It is All BASED ON A LIE.
Your church is a lie.
It is proven by an eye witness.
Why is he wrong and you are right?
Post Reply | Private Reply | To 220 | View Replies LDS defend the faith as Christian ^ What are you talking about? I have heard of this accusation by anti-Christians but it has no historical authority and certainly is not documented in any authentic way. You are just trying to bash Jesus based on nothing but anti-Christian speculation. ++++++++++++++++++++++ He is an eye witness and he must have the same authority as the eyewitness against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have.
Posted by fproy2222 to beachdweller
On Religion ^ 10/26/2007 6:15:06 AM EDT · 899 of 1,468 ^
LDS defend the faith as Christian ^ I don’t understand your post. Would you please rephrase it? Thanks. Back when the inspired writings were compiled into the cannon of the bible, someone or a group of someones decided witch works became part of the cannon of scripture and what writings were to be left out. But the same people do not believe in prophets after Peter, James, and John. So, if there have been no more prophets, how can this work of God be true and accurate, or at least complete. Or did the bible come only from good men doing good things. Now, someone has decided what the writings in the cannon of the bible says and means. Are they just good men doing good things and subject to the mistakes of man, or are they prophets of God telling us how to believe. And if they do not clam the authority of God, then the best they can be are good men , with the limitations of men.
Posted by fproy2222 to xzins
On Religion ^ 10/26/2007 7:42:06 AM EDT · 917 of 1,468 ^
+++++++++++++++++++++
If, as so many say, the bible is true and God has kept it that way, then these people were agents of God, or Prophets for the rest of us..
LDS defend the faith as Christian ^
Posted by fproy2222 to xzins
On Religion ^ 10/26/2007 2:49:35 PM EDT · 957 of 1,468 ^
you said, and i am copying and pasting your words;;
I would certainly add an absolutely proven writing of one of the apostles to the bible. Others have argued with me over that one, but I am subject to the Apostles by instruction of Jesus Christ.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
are you now saying you did not say it? you also said;;;;;;;; I’m saying that writings of the Apostolic Eyewitnesses who associated with Jesus in the Palestine of roughly 0-35 AD would be legitimate scripture ++++++++++++++++ And what about the eyewitness who knew Marry and the Roman solider who fathered Jesus. He lived during the time of Christ and wrote just after His death. To you, why is his first hand testimony not as true as those you choose to believe.
still, the question to you is;
It is only fair that if you want me to listen to you because you disagree with me; that you should be willing listen to those who disagree with you. Or is this another case of do as I say, not what I do?
Amazing! Not that I didn’t already know many of these ideas floating around Mormonism, but that someone actually put them in print - - to be saved for posterity for all to see and read.
Incredible!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.