Posted on 10/25/2007 1:18:42 PM PDT by TheDon
Ismael Rougle knew. He served in the Army during the Vietnam War and suffered the loss of good friends there.
...
And though she liked to pretend otherwise, Nancy Rougle knew, too. Her son feared that this would be his final combat tour and had told her so. They all knew the cost of war. "But not like this," sighed Ismael Rougle as he struggled to consider a world without his eldest son, Larry. "No, not like this." Ismael Rougle learned Tuesday afternoon that his son, a 25-year-old U.S. Army sniper, had been shot in the stomach and killed in Afghanistan's volatile Kunar Province. On Wednesday afternoon, the grieving father was bent under the hood of an old truck, his oil-stained hands contorted behind the leaky radiator as he recalled the day his then-17-year-old son had come home to say that he was going to join the Army. "I'd never suggested it," said Ismael Rougle, who had served 25 years in the Army. "But he had it in his mind that this is what he wanted to do. And he was so proud."
...
Two years later, in the wake of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Larry Rougle departed for his first combat tour. He was 19. Over the six years that have followed, family members said, Larry Rougle served two more tours in Afghanistan and three in Iraq. "Six tours," Ismael Rougle said. "Six." Family members say Larry Rougle never complained about being called away from home, not even after his then-wife gave birth to a daughter, Carmin Jade, now 3 years old. He loved the girl more than anything, they said, but remained proud to serve and committed to victory.
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(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
“Yeah, but Bush has had time to reverse that, hasn’t he?”
++++++++++++++++++
Agreed, more than enough! Too busy leaving no child behind I guess.
I've been married to a soldier for almost two decades... and you're right. Most of them do love it. Right now the biggest disagreement between my husband and myself is that I want him to get out at 20 years and he wants to stay in for the full 30. I keep trying to get him to use his imagination and see that there are other things to do in this world than serve! lol!
Yes, grieve for the families. They lost someone who meant the world to them.
But remember: G-d doesn't allow good soldiers to die, He reassigns them to Heaven.
In no way am I implying that the soldier featured in the above article is less than a hero or that his family is exaggerating his service record. I am replying to a comment made by a fellow FReeper. I am relating a personal experience that has *nothing* to do with the above stated soldier. If this offends you... get over it.
Carry on! ;-)
Those must have been very brief “tours”, or tours split between Iraq and Afghanistan and counted as two tours.... Something doesn’t add up...
I met a fellow military wife who proudly told me her husband served over 30 tours in 12 years... I was surprised and more than a bit confused.
Turned out she was counting every school and two-week field problem. Did a good job of painting herself as a victim.
Isn't a tour defined as more than 6 months in a combat zone? My DH served in Kosovo and Kuwait and doesn't count them as tours. (No combat stripe... no tour.)
Why? Is it the pay? The pay's OK. Not the greatest, definately not terrible. Is it the medical? Tricare is a pain the butt sometimes, but I can live with it. Am I proud of him? YES! Do we love our country and our armed forces? Without a doubt.
Are we human beings who get tired? Yup.
I once had a fellow FReeper who admonished me for expressing such views. He said that I wasn't being supportive.
I've ironed BDU's, sent countless care packages, waved my husband's pictures in front of toddlers' faces so they wouldn't forget their father, fixed broken pipes and cars, managed the finances, managed life-threatening illness.. all on my own so my soul mate could put his life on the line to kick terrorist butt overseas so every American can continue to enjoy their double half-caff without a suicide bomber blowing them up. The mission has *always* come first. I'm an army wife. IMHO, I deserve to be tired and to gripe to my heart's content. To be perfectly honest, the thought of this next 15 month deployment is draining me.
Unless you've lived the life, you have no idea how hard it can be. Mine is one story in a hundred thousand. Do I regret my life? Absolutely not. Do I wish some things could've been different? Who doesn't? We made a choice, as a couple, that we were going to see this through to the end. But the troops (official and unofficial) are really getting tired and could sure use some reinforcements.
(And will somebody *please* shut up those Liberal blankity-blanks who're emboldening the enemy and costing our men their lives? If it weren't for those traitors, I think this mess would've been over by now. I'd really appreciate that. Thaaanks.)
The reductions started a long time ago. Post any war, but certainly post Vietnam. The AF I belonged too was 800,000 strong in the 1960’s. Now it is 350,000 and doing as much or more than when I was in.
That's kind of a goofy thing to write
You may recall that the draft ended in the 1970s but the reductions in force (RIFs) down to the current force structure didn’t begin until the mid to late 1980s. In between, it was all volunteer force being sustained on the hard work of recruiters in the face of a growing economy and a pretty negative attitude towards the military coming out of the Vietnam War.
The real constraint on substantially increasing the end strength is not really manpower or money. It is lack of justification to keep that many well armed, well trained, and well paid service personnel on active duty without a clear requirement. A requirement arising in response to a serious military threat (or threats) to the nation along with a clear idea of what the force structure must be in order to meet and overcome the threat(s).
Looking back to the Cold War, Korea, and WW II is a mistake because the next major war the United States fights will be a “come as you are” war that may have all of the important issues for the war decided in its opening round. Consequently, you have this conflicting demand for economy on one hand (because paying, equipping, and training these forces to keep them in continual readiness for employment is very expensive) and the political demand on the other hand that the force be sufficiently big and powerful to deal with a simultaneous outbreak of major and minor regional conflicts and ultimately win them all. Win them all, I might add, without experiencing a lot of casualties to upset the political situation at home.
That's a tough hand of cards to play successfully in today's superheated and hyperpartisan politican environment.
“the reductions in force (RIFs) down to the current force structure didn’t begin until the mid to late 1980s.”
I was in West Germany in the mid-70s when the RIFs began.
Well the Smirking Chimp and Republicans have been yelling war for what 6 years now? Where have they ever put the money where their mouths are? The current Vice POTUS was one of our nations worse as far as gutting our military while Sec of Defense. No one not Bush, not either Sec of Def, not congress has done one single thing for our troops but give CHEAP lip service and gather photo opps for themselves.
The state department is running this war and we see the end results. It's a political war making friends of politicians richer. Had Bush went in and ordered Iraq leveled and pulled out I might have a different opinion but Bush is a liar. That can be proven by his comments on Nation Building second debate with Gore in 2000. Bush or Gore they are one and the same even the Smirking Chimp told us so.
In short the Bush Dynasty has been a living disaster for our military. It was indeed under Poppy that the gutting began. The cuts were already too deep and the problems well under way when Clinton took it even further. In the mean time what has Bush Jr actually done for our troops? NOTHING! I can say the same for Hillary Clinton, Lott, Nancy, Reid, Hassert, Frist, and the rest of them. What our elected are doing in both the Democrat and Republican parties to our military is a disgrace and both parties are just that a Disgrace to the blood spilled to make this nation free. Any elected leader that even dares to challenge establishment leadership and demand it follow the Constitution is immediately labeled a loon it seems.
Bush is about as detached from reality as any POTUS in our history. He ties LBJ in agenda. He ties Jimmy Carter in ignorance and incompetence.
BTW our current End Troop Strength numbers both reserve and active are about the same as 1996. Way to GO GOP RINO’s the congressional and senate majority under a GOP POTUS that did exactally what? NOTHING!!! for our military.
A post war downsize is somewhat normal. But that is not what happened after Reagan left office. Reagan and Cap Wienberger had us to a military readiness level unseen since the end of WW2. By that I mean the level of training and manpower available to do the job without straining resources. It was the military that helped win the Cold War. A drastic turnaround from the dark days of Bush's political mentor Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter.
It was Poppy Bush and Cheney who started us on the military readiness downturn. Clinton sure didn't help matters but this fact needs to be remembered. Six out of Clinton's eight years as POTUS was under a GOP majority in both houses. By 1996 the GOP houses had gone Liberal Republican. It was congress who could have stopped Clinton's cuts and reversed Poppy's. The parties are too close in their agenda now for change to come from either party. Time to start a new one.
You didn't read my references, did you?
The burden IS being shared fairly.
It must be very peaceful for you, cocooned in your ignorance and bigotry, content never to allow a real thought to enter your foot-thick 'noggin.
You are confusing two very different events. The draw down of a draftee military after a war has always occurred in the United States military.
However, Bush the senior is the person who began the meat ax approach to the all volunteer military. His actions set the tone for Clinton to accelerate the damage to our military across all service lines.
“I’ve ironed BDU’s, sent countless care packages,...”
You’ve been more than supportive, you have become entwined in the BDU fabric of American Patriotism.
Everybody gets tired and everyone needs a break. American soldiers just like to see a little positive results from their efforts, such as a country willing to put more of their own people on line to take back their country. That’s all we really want. And then when we get back home to tell war stories between sips of beer, we can honestly feel good about what we did.
One thing interesting about our experience in Afghanistan, it showed the lack of backbone and committment of many of the NATO countries. NATO leadership is realizing this and is getting the message out to the member nations to start ponying up. Finally, Germany and France govts are going to allow their military troops down south in the ‘dangerous’ areas, rather than hanging back in Mazar Sharif knocking back Heinikens.
oops, clarification, I mean’t to not JUST grieve. We should be proud also.
You’re right nicko. The grind gets to every soldier eventually and the adventure wears off. My deployment to Iraq (15 months) was particularly difficult for me (I have 2 toddlers at home). My wife barely made it. I’m a Major in the National Guard and your point about dwell time is an accurate one. People forget the massive train-up you go through before a deployment. You spend many months away from your family before you even officially depart for the sand box.
Here’s the big issue I have. I get sick and tired of hearing that we’re an all-volunteer force, and we signed up for this and have to deploy without complaining. Fine. My comlaint is that more people don’t volunteer. The percentage of citizens protecting this nation is tiny. The few who step up to the plate and serve end up getting pushed to the brink. I want more people to put their money where their mouth is.
I actually get tired of people coming up and thanking me. It’s a friendly gesture and all that, but I wonder “why don’t you serve too? Why don’t you sign up to defend this nation?” I’m tired of the lip service.
There passed a man whose shoes I wouldn’t be worthy to polish.
*Exactly*! This would be sooo much easier if we were bombard with messages of support and encouragement rather than constantly having to defend doing the right thing! You cannot say you support the troops and their families then do everything possible to demoralize their mission. They *are* the mission!
“The few who step up to the plate and serve end up getting pushed to the brink.”
Of course, it all depends on how the war, or wars play out. Gulf War 1 went swimmingly well, and everybody got a parade.
After OEF/OIF kicked off, we assumed that many other nations, including Afghanistan and Iraq would be able to provide enough soldiers to take control. Psyche. Thus, the grinding of the American soldier continues. If these countries don’t get it soon, we may have to drastically reduce our roll to a search and destroy air support/specwar mode. When enough of their dead pile up, maybe they will put AQ down on their own.
I’m afraid these two wars are going to be like living next to a neighbor you despise and there’s not much you can do about it, short of move. There will be no parade in the war against AQ. Muslim fanaticism has been around since 600 AD. Now that they have become more emboldened since watching and clapping when two of the world’s largest buildings fell, well, things are going to get hairy. that’s why Afghanistan and Pakistan cannot fall.
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