Romney Surges in S.C., Florida

Dry Fly Politics ^ | 10/23/07 | Steve

[Reaganesque]

Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007...8:57 am

Romney Surges in S.C., Florida

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In vastly underreported election news, recent polls are showing a Romney surge in both South Carolina and Florida. Of course no one knows this because no one has mentioned it. We would all think that Romney was flopping around like a fish out of water in the Southern states according to some recent posts that have been written about each state. Of course, logic would tell us that Romney should not be doing well in either of these states: He is Mormon, Slick, and a NorEaster. Nevertheless, he is polling well and will likely be right in the thick of the races come January. Here are the recent polls:

South Carolina

Oct 02, Insider Advantage Poll: Thompson 21%, Romney and Giuliani 16%

Sep 26-29, ARG Poll: Romney 26%, Giuliani 23%, Thompson 10%

Sep 26-27, Rasmussen: Thompson 24%, Giuliani 20%, Romney 15%

Additionally, the Romney campaign performed an internal poll, here are the results:

Romney Internal Poll: Thompson: 24%, Romney 20%, Giuliani 15%

So, in South Carolina Romney is right in the thick of the fight. It appears that the recent condemnation of Giuliani by Christian Right leaders is having a detrimental effect and that the advertising that Romney has been airing over the last month is causing some movement. However, it should be noted that the same article that reported the Romney internal poll caveats the results by saying that this was before the Bob Jones endorsement. A separat poll says that 27% of South Carolinans are more likely to support Romney due to this, but 32% are less likely. It will be interesting to see what effect the evangelical endorsements will have.

In Florida, Romney also continues to surge, and Florida is arguably more important a victory for any of the candidates. Here are the recent polls:

Oct 1-8, Quinnipiac: Giuliani: 27%, Thompson 19%, Romney 17%

Oct. 2, Insider Advantage: Giuliani 29%, Thompson 19%, Romney 16%

Granted, these polls are nothing to get thrilled over as Giuliani has a sizeable lead. However, all previous polling had Romney hovering between 7% and 10% in Florida. So a 6-7 point jump in a month is significant and he is really the only one gaining steam in these states, whereas Giuliani and Thompson are plateauing.

It should also be mentioned that all the hubub about Huckabee or Thompson surging against Romney in Iowa should be somewhat muted by the most recent Iowa poll that gave Romney an impressive 14 point lead:

Oct 10-14, Strategic Vision Poll: Romney-27, Giuliani-13, Huckabee-12, Thompson-10.

I wonder if this will get the coverage that the poll placing Huckabee within 6 points will get. I doubt it.

All in all, while Romney has stalled in some places, so have all the candidates. The race is a real crap shoot, there is far from a difinitive front runner. However, it still looks to be a Giuliani-Romney finale.

[JRochelle]

It is so amazing to me that a candidate of Mitt’s qualities, his poise, his executive abilities, his proven track record, his wealth, would lay all of these things down, and literally put his life and his family lives and fortune on the line for the sake of this nation.

---

Dude, thats messed up.

Mitt is not a good candidate at all, he isn’t literally putting his life on the line and the bulk of his fortune isn’t going anywhere.

You have a serious case of Mittitis.

Fred is the med for that.

[restornu]

Mitt was very knowleageble in each of his position be it Bishop or the Stake pres. he honor his callings faithfully.

So many choose to listen to the media instead of doing their own homework about those running for office

[FastCoyote]

“they could only use another Mormon from out of state to save their Olympics (talk about religious discrimination!)”

[Mitt was well qualified, and the results show they hired the right man for the job. And where is the evidence that they only considered giving the job to a Mormon? There isn’t any. That is your own little paranoid delusion.]

Oh come now. You mean to tell me out of all the thousands of multimillionaires in America, 98% of whom are non-Mormon and 98% not living in Utah, and some of whom had experience with sports franchises, THAT THERE WAS NOT ONE IOTA OF MORMON BIGOTRY IN PLUCKING MITT FROM HIS JOB AT BAIN TO RUN THE OLYMPICS? ? ? Bwhahahahahahaha!

And why would any sane man leave such a job, unless he was being primed and primped for high office (by the Mormon church)? Oh, you’re killing me, what a hoot! I can see where you’re coming from, through my magic seer coke bottle!

“when you have to promote a man as God (so your whole worldview doesn’t collapse), then I can see how you might believe that no one in the universe could be as pure as Mitt nor his equal.”

[LOL. More kook ranting. Nobody is promoting Mitt as God, and I’ve said many times that Mitt is not the perfect candidate, just the best of the bunch that are running.]

So you mean Mitt isn’t good enough to become God? ? ? ? I mean, the whole point of Mormon theology is to become good enough to deserve your own Planet and Godhood.

If Mitt can’t make to Godhood, then just who could? I mean, certainly not you Grig, because I gainsay you aren’t rich enough, don’t tithe enough, have not been a Bishop or Stake President, and don’t have the perfect family that Mitt does. So, I understand why you would want to hide your hope that Mitt is a God in the making, but it’s quite clear that Mormon’s in general have found their Sun God and that’s why there is all the spin when anything bad is pointed out about him.

Were Mitt just a humble mortal, and if his followers believed he was made of less than star material, he would have a chance at the presidency. But there are almost two hundred years of Prophecy and Revelation and Mormon superstition at stake and claiming he’s just another Joe Blow is patentedly false. As you’ve so obligingly shown with your condescension towards me, Mitt must be more talented and ‘better’ than any other human.

“If you have a beef with our view of the divine potential that exist in every person, take it to the religion forum.”

No sir, buckaroo. If Mitt has divine pretensions, then that is a political issue everyone in an informed electorate ought to be aware of. No other candidate believes they are on a path to divinity. I don’t think even Queen Hillary has such an inflated ego as to believe she is on a path too Godhood. Nope, your type of disingenuous censorship is transparent and poisonous and will be resisted.

[I’ll be happy to show you many quotes from early Christian fathers saying the same things we say.]

And I could show you a whole Book of Mormon that was made up from wholecloth, and archives showing Joseph Smith was a bank fraud, and a tinpot general who almost got thousands of Mormons killed at Far West and Nauvoo because of his egocentric theocratic delusions. So I’m just telling you that I will never vote for anyone who is so caught up in such mumbo jumbo, and a lot of other people feel the same way.

“you appear to be into some kind of Sun God worship”

[Make that ‘Son of God’.]

Aren’t you the result of a Spirit Child? Aren’t you on a path to equivalence to the ‘Son of God’? Isn’t Joseph Smith already equivalent to Jesus? And is this mishmash of Greek Mythology and polytheism something I really want to have in the White House? I think not.

“his whole campaign is about him being the “Chosen One””

[LOL. Show me that press release, I must have missed it.]

You show me the press release that says the Mormon hierarchy opposes Mitt. Come on, people who live around Mormons know how the game is played, how the excommunications cull any but the truebelievers, and the ‘chosen’ are carefully placed in position. We aren’t naive.

“I’m only demonizing Joseph Smith”

[You compare every Mormon to a mental patient and then try to pass yourself off as only demonizing the founder? Yeah, right. Your hostility towards anyone and anything connected to Mormonism is very clear, even if you are in denial about it.]

I have had many friends who were mental patients who never deserved to be demonized, but certainly deserved to hear the truth so they had a chance to get out of the ‘dark hole’. Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was a conniving trickster and he demonized himself quite well without my help, though I’m happy to report his history to others. And certainly I am hostile towards certain aspects of Mormonism, like the shunning of apostates that happens so often and is quite brutal and heartless.

But twist things as you like, you’re the one who believes in secret handshakes and magic garmies and seer stones and books of gold hidden by ancient Jewish American Indians in the Hills of New York and written in Reformed Egyptian. May you find your garden of Eden, wherever in Ohio it might be.

[Grig]

“Fred is the med for that.”

From what I hear, Fred is the med for insomnia.

[JRochelle]

Heh. Good one.

I like Fred but Hunter is my top choice.

[FastCoyote]

“Even an athiest should be opposed to violating the rights of the unborn.”

But abortion has nothing more than an irrational emotional meaning to an atheist, the same kind of illogic that leads to protests against puppy killing but not for the butchering of cows. So a true atheist, though they may make a weak argument against abortion, has no ability to make an absolute argument.

It takes a religious fanatic to make the absolute argument. So the anti-abortion movement in it’s truest form is a religious/political question - the two can’t be separated.

[FastCoyote]

“Perhaps it is because Mitt’s Mormonism seems to be very germane in this election cycle.”

[Only to that small minority who have ‘mormon issues’.]

Are you saying those with “Mormon issues” should be culled from the herd, perhaps excommunicated?. Because the Mormon church has quite a few people who specialize in culling non-believers (Apostates) from their membership and could form the basis of a Republican excommunication squad. In fact, there was such a fellow right here on Free Republic, who through no fault of his own (except threatening to destroy FreeRepublic by bringing in a Mormon horde), so there’s at least one high censor who could use some work.

But of course, all Mormons are nice people, I forgot to say my Mantra.

[Grig]

“Oh come now. You mean to tell me out of all the thousands of multimillionaires in America, 98% of whom are non-Mormon and 98% not living in Utah, and some of whom had experience with sports franchises, THAT THERE WAS NOT ONE IOTA OF MORMON BIGOTRY IN PLUCKING MITT FROM HIS JOB AT BAIN TO RUN THE OLYMPICS? ? ? Bwhahahahahahaha!”

What I’m saying is that if you want to make a charge like that and be taken seriously, you should have some kind of evidence to support it. Last I checked ‘Bwhahahahahahaha!’ didn’t count as evidence.

“And why would any sane man leave such a job, unless he was being primed and primped for high office (by the Mormon church)?”

I have no doubt that he saw the job as an opportunity to further his career goals, but those goals are his own. Suggesting there was some kind of conspiracy at Church HQ to put a Mormon into the White House (again without any kind of evidence) is just another paranoid delusion of yours. I hope Mitt gets the nomination and later wins the election just to see your reaction.

“So you mean Mitt isn’t good enough to become God”

I leave it to God to do the judging of our lives after we die.

“But there are almost two hundred years of Prophecy and Revelation and Mormon superstition at stake and claiming he’s just another Joe Blow is patentedly false.”

However Mitt’s campaign turns out, it has no bearing on the church and nobody is claiming Mitt is anything more than a good candidate.

“Isn’t Joseph Smith already equivalent to Jesus?”

Nope, Joseph is a servant of Christ.

“You show me the press release that says the Mormon hierarchy opposes Mitt.”

Check the newsroom at lds.org. It shouldn’t be too hard to find the press release they put out every election year stating that the church doesn’t endorse any candidate or party, or allow it’s facilities to be used for political meetings.

[Colofornian]

Great response (to Grig's advocacy to sideline the Romney feedback to the Religion Forum): If Mitt has divine pretensions, then that is a political issue everyone in an informed electorate ought to be aware of. No other candidate believes they are on a path to divinity. I don’t think even Queen Hillary has such an inflated ego as to believe she is on a path too Godhood. Nope, your type of disingenuous censorship is transparent and poisonous and will be resisted.

Look for this Q to be asked directly of MR in '08 (& then promptly ducked). I mean, for Hillary, the White House First Lady role was a stepping stone to the White House Oval Office; for Mitt, the D.C. White House Oval Office Desk is but a stepping stone to D.-Vine White Throne (Rev. 20:11).

(And much power would pulse through his White House veins if he already sees himself as what some Mormons call themselves--a "god-in-embryo?"

[Colofornian]

Mitt was very knowleageble in each of his position be it Bishop or the Stake pres. he honor his callings faithfully. So many choose to listen to the media instead of doing their own homework about those running for office.

Let me get this straight. Mitt held those LDS positions in the mid-1980s. In the 1994 debate with Teddy Kennedy, the YouTube clip shows a forceful Mitt Romney proudly proclaiming that he had been "pro-choice" (pro-abortion) since 1970 when his Mom held that position when she ran for Senate.

Tell me, does the LDS church constantly put pro-abortion leaders into bishop and stake prez positions?

[Reno232]

“I posted that I would not exchange with Delphi User or any of his incarnations, so I guess it’s time to stop exchanging with you too”.

Thank you so much. Please, please be a gentleman & hold to that. I think it would be the best for both of us. I wish you well.

[WOSG]

“Are you saying those with “Mormon issues” should be culled from the herd, perhaps excommunicated?.”

Of course not. I just think the incessent posters who’ve made their anti-mormon points umpteen times already and seem to be proud of expressing their narrow-minded zealotry should get a life. And we should move on to real issues in the campaign.

[WOSG]

Nope. There are prolife athiests and pro-choice atheists.

[Colofornian]

First of all, in many other writings Joseph refers the the 2 personages as the Father & the Son so I think we’re clear on who he saw.

Listen, when the Lord appears to someone for the first time, as He did Moses in Ex. 3...He identifies Himself at least in some way as a heavenly Being ("I AM that I AM" in Moses' case, or as an Angel of the Lord--a theophany of the OT). (He doesn't leave it entirely up to some commentator to "fill-in-a-non-Scripturally located blank."

As far as the Pharisees & creeds are concerned, the Lord stated that their creeds were an abomination, not all their beliefs.

I'm sorry but here you are trying to make a false distinction between "beliefs" and "creeds" when, in fact, the very word "credo" is Latin for "belief."

Tell me, when the Lord came, what church existing was he the head of? Was there a sect of the Pharisees that was his church? Or had all of Judah fallen away? What part was his church? Or had there been basically a total apostasy? What branch was His & teaching all of His doctrines? I’m not aware of any in the scriptures or elsewhere.

OK, Mormonism is unique among sects in applying the concept of "church" (Greek, "ekklesia") to OT times. Jesus doesn't reference "church" until Matthew 16...which is basically over 2 years into his public ministry and within a year before His death. That's exactly why in Matthew 16:18, Jesus clearly says, "I will build my church." So, no, no others but Jesus built His Church.

The gospels make it clear that the "forerunner" movement-wise and preparation-wise to Jesus was his cousin, John the Baptist. Oh sure, much of Judaism still pointed to a Messiah and many of its rituals still pointed to a savior-redeemer-deliverer. But the original "Baptist" movement began with John.

Were there any churches at the time of Christ that were right? None, except His.

Well, John the Baptist didn't have a "church" (yes, he had a "movement.") The book of Hebrews calls Jesus the "Author and Finisher of our faith"--so He is the Originator. But God has long had a covenant people, and the OT is replete with example after example that God has always had a remnant (I suggest you do a word study on that word).

Were any of the churches join-able? None, Except His.

That's like saying, "Were any of the fast-food chain restaurants ones you could go to in the early McDonald's days?"

Tell me which of the “Professors” was right.

John the Baptist, who Jesus said of him: "I tell you the truth:Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist..." (Matthew 11:11).

Gotta go...I'll address the second half of your post tomorrow.

[sandude]

I only took a quick look for anyone obvious and found a match. There may be more links to our families and if I see any obscure ones later on I'll let you know.

I followed your grandmother Alice Prince's New England ancestors and found a connection to John and Pricilla Alden from the Mayflower. I’m related to the Aldens through my mothers side of the family. I’ve been writing a book for my children telling the story of how our ancestors came to America, what their early experiences were, and how their descendent's ended up falling in with the Mormons. From there I’ll write of their experiences in the early church and move onto the exodus to Utah. I then plan to tell the story of Utah history up until 1932 when the last of my ancestors who crossed the plains died. Right now I’m concentrating on the pre-restoration history of my family. The work is coming along slowly (perhaps too much freeping time) but it has been rewarding. I’ve learned many new things about the pre revolutionary American experience. Oh, and in case you’re wondering, I’m not going to write a Lilly white Sunday school history. It will be wort's and all, but written fairly from a believers viewpoint.

[FastCoyote]

“Are you saying those with “Mormon issues” should be culled from the herd, perhaps excommunicated?.”

[Of course not. I just think the incessent posters who’ve made their anti-mormon points umpteen times already and seem to be proud of expressing their narrow-minded zealotry should get a life.]

So, we shouldn’t be excommunicated, just silenced? And if we aren’t silenced, should we THEN be excommunicated? The Mormons are very good at the “silencing” technique as well, every Mormon knows how they will be shunned by other Mormons if they start to stray, and how the calls from the Bishops to “toe the line” will begin. Is the “Mormon way” what you are advocating for us?

And is that “the Way” Mitt would run a presidency? The “Mormon way”? ?

[And we should move on to real issues in the campaign.]

Thank God all religious questions should be stripped from political debate. Why, if those pesky religious questions were gone, Mitt wouldn’t to answer for his flip flop on abortion either.

[FastCoyote]

“There are prolife athiests and pro-choice atheists.”

And I Guarantee pro-choice atheists outstrip the pro-life ones by three to one. Atheists are in general drawn to the Democratic party, which IS the pro-life Party. There’s not a lot of use arguing facts.

Religion is inseparable from the anti-abortion movement.

[restornu]

Tell me, does the LDS church constantly put pro-abortion leaders into bishop and stake prez positions?

To follow your lie Colofornian there would be no need for Welcome to the LDS Adoption Web site. !

Mitt did not adhere to those views in his personal life nor encourage those in his flock, he wanted the woman who was in that kind of situation to carry the baby to full term and to adopt out the child but not in any way to abort.

There was even a controversy written up in the Boston papers how he tried to prevent women in his ward from having abortion.

[restornu]

“Bwahahaha, that’s even more outrageous (chuckle, chuckle) ... you’ve just shown that Joe Smith was consulting with familiar spirits.

Sent Peter, the man, the Apostle who was crucified unside down?

Are you aware that the OLD TESTAMENT forbids consulting the dead?

(Grin)Or are you now trying to equate Joe with Jesus? Pitiful.

***

You truly are ignorant MHGinTN, of the scriptures because you have not taken time to study them you have let the edit version of the Tradition of Men be your counsel!

Even when we point out to you where you are mistaken you don’t dare acknowleged it you move on to something else!

You sneer at those of us who let the Holy Spirit guide us to understand the things of the Lord!

In the OT it was prophised that-

Malachi 4

5 ¶ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

The Jews every year set a place at the table for the coming of Elijah, which Elijah did come he appeared April 3, 1836 at the Kirtland Temple.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/110/13

2 cor 12 (even Paul has his vision)

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

[colorcountry]

I understand there are many of us native Utah Mormons with ties to the Mayflower. I suspected that was our connection. As I was looking again at the Bass/Alden branch I noticed the John Adams (POTUS) connection.

There is also a branch in Alice Prince that follows the Plantagenet Kings of Enland back to Norway through Odin to the year 080 (69 generations from me).

It’s fascinating. I suspect that if all peoples had done their geneology, we would find us to all be quite “related.”

Thanks for the chat.