Romney Surges in S.C., Florida

Dry Fly Politics ^ | 10/23/07 | Steve

[Reaganesque]

Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007...8:57 am

Romney Surges in S.C., Florida

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In vastly underreported election news, recent polls are showing a Romney surge in both South Carolina and Florida. Of course no one knows this because no one has mentioned it. We would all think that Romney was flopping around like a fish out of water in the Southern states according to some recent posts that have been written about each state. Of course, logic would tell us that Romney should not be doing well in either of these states: He is Mormon, Slick, and a NorEaster. Nevertheless, he is polling well and will likely be right in the thick of the races come January. Here are the recent polls:

South Carolina

Oct 02, Insider Advantage Poll: Thompson 21%, Romney and Giuliani 16%

Sep 26-29, ARG Poll: Romney 26%, Giuliani 23%, Thompson 10%

Sep 26-27, Rasmussen: Thompson 24%, Giuliani 20%, Romney 15%

Additionally, the Romney campaign performed an internal poll, here are the results:

Romney Internal Poll: Thompson: 24%, Romney 20%, Giuliani 15%

So, in South Carolina Romney is right in the thick of the fight. It appears that the recent condemnation of Giuliani by Christian Right leaders is having a detrimental effect and that the advertising that Romney has been airing over the last month is causing some movement. However, it should be noted that the same article that reported the Romney internal poll caveats the results by saying that this was before the Bob Jones endorsement. A separat poll says that 27% of South Carolinans are more likely to support Romney due to this, but 32% are less likely. It will be interesting to see what effect the evangelical endorsements will have.

In Florida, Romney also continues to surge, and Florida is arguably more important a victory for any of the candidates. Here are the recent polls:

Oct 1-8, Quinnipiac: Giuliani: 27%, Thompson 19%, Romney 17%

Oct. 2, Insider Advantage: Giuliani 29%, Thompson 19%, Romney 16%

Granted, these polls are nothing to get thrilled over as Giuliani has a sizeable lead. However, all previous polling had Romney hovering between 7% and 10% in Florida. So a 6-7 point jump in a month is significant and he is really the only one gaining steam in these states, whereas Giuliani and Thompson are plateauing.

It should also be mentioned that all the hubub about Huckabee or Thompson surging against Romney in Iowa should be somewhat muted by the most recent Iowa poll that gave Romney an impressive 14 point lead:

Oct 10-14, Strategic Vision Poll: Romney-27, Giuliani-13, Huckabee-12, Thompson-10.

I wonder if this will get the coverage that the poll placing Huckabee within 6 points will get. I doubt it.

All in all, while Romney has stalled in some places, so have all the candidates. The race is a real crap shoot, there is far from a difinitive front runner. However, it still looks to be a Giuliani-Romney finale.

[greyfoxx39]

I just revisited this thread and noticed something quite fascinating at the top.

See if you catch it.

Romney Surges in S.C., Florida
Dry Fly Politics ^ | 10/23/07 | Steve

Posted on 10/24/2007 6:45:16 AM MDT by Reaganesque

click here to read article

Dry Fly Politics is a blog, a MORMON blog, and the "click here to read article" link sends you to THIS thread...not to the original source. Why take the trouble to do this?

BTW, from the front page of Dry Fly Politics, is this:

In vastly underreported election news, recent polls are showing a Romney surge in both South Carolina and Florida. Of course no one knows this because no one has mentioned it. We would all think that Romney was flopping around like a fish out of water in the Southern states according to some recent posts that have been written about each state. Of course, logic would tell us that Romney should not be doing well in either of these states: He is Mormon, Slick, and a NorEaster. Nevertheless, he is polling well and will likely be right in the thick of the races come January.

And, from the same site, "Mormon Q and A", a sample I find equally fascinating given some of the answers we have seen on FR threads:

Q) Is it possible for me, as a non-Mormon, to go to Heaven after I die and be in full fellowship with Jesus Christ?

A) Yes, in full fellowship. “Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.” After “judgement day” (we call final judgement) all will be forgiven through the atonement of Christ and will go on to a place far better than we now live - heaven. Now, we also believe that in order to progress and attain all that God has prepared for us, you need to have performed the ordinances and proven your worthiness. In other words, there are different glories (or levels of progress?) that can be attained in heaven. The grace of Christ saves us and returns us to heaven, our efforts then move us on through the ranks if you will. (hmm, that is the first time I thought of the role of Grace vs. Works like that. Already a good day when I learn something new!)

Interesting!

[Hi Heels]

Once again, you change the facts to meet your agenda and then plummet into juvenile name calling. I AM an ex mormon, whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not. You simply don't like it because I'm not a MORMON HATING ex mormon. Tough.

Here is the problem: You can't provide any source that states that any measurable percentage of Americans will not vote for Romney because of his religion, can you? And YES that is EXACTLY what you said. And you said it here:

"I won’t vote for Mitt, and right now I cannot envision a Mormon that would I would vote for. That makes me look bad? Yep....me and about 19%-40% of the nation by the most recent polls.", post 111, this thread, this week, this year. Don't make statements you can't defend. And, I found something you might want to take a gander at, CC:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

All citizens should be free to follow their conscience in matters of religious faith. Freedom of religion includes the right to worship alone or with others, in public or private, and to participate in religious observance, practice, and teaching without fear of persecution from government or other groups in society. (ooo. I liked that last sentence)

All people have the right to worship or assemble in connection with a religion or belief, and to establish and maintain places for these purposes.

Like other fundamental human rights, religious freedom is not created or granted by the state, but all states should protect it. Democracies include language pertaining to protection of religious freedom in their constitutions.

To defame and hate someone simply because of their faith is abominable. It's against the very nature of Christianity. There's enough hatred in the world. Stop adding to it.

[colorcountry]

Lying for the Lord....Milk before Meat. Same old, same old.

Too bad there are many uninformed people who will fall for it.

[colorcountry]

Oh dear, maybe you should slow down and READ. I said 17-40% NOT 47% and I provided you with the polls.

Answer this one question ex-mo. (yes it is a test)

What is the age of accountability?

[mission9]

I challenge you to practice a little self policing. Contact Jimrob or the admin moderator for FR, you may edit this sample request as you feel the need, just show us your query and the response.

Mr. Moderator,

I have special knowledge about Mormons that I feel compelled to make sure everyone on FR knows about. I have made postings to many on FR who feel that my earnest warnings have the taint of religious bigotry. I don’t want to shame or embarrass anyone, merely inform.

They want me to start a different post in the religious category, and make my issues there.

Do you think it is out of line for me to continue to post such information, when the recipients of such information have indicated to me that my input is off-topic, not germane, and has the tint of religious discrimination?

thank you,
colorcountry

Now if you believe that you are in the right, you will do this, and share with us the result.

[Hi Heels]

You provided me with your figures, not a poll. Where is the NEWS story that SHOWS this huge fact you're standing on like a soap box? I'd like to see the verifiable source, please.

I owe you absolutely no proof of my life story. None at all. Let's test you. Who is General Donaphan?

[Reno232]

As CUH stated very appropriately, “by their fruits ye shall know them”. I’m deeply sadened that your fruits more closely resemble those of your “Christian” brethren from the Westboro Baptist church who recently displayed similar vitriole towards a funeral of one of our fallen Marines. See post: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1645068/posts.

Both you & Phelps do what you do in the name of the Lord. You both say you’re “Christian”. The vitriole & the willingness to trample sacred things is common among both of you & others on this board. “By their fruits ye shall know them”, indeed.

[montag813]

I think Giuliani is close to having it wrapped up.

No way. The Red Sox debacle is a fatal one. Remember how he criticized Hillary for rooting for both the Mets and Yankees in 2000? How is this any different? In fact, it is WORSE.

[colorcountry]

Thank you for your suggestion.

As long as people respond to my posts here, I will reply. This thread is many days old, and would have died its natural death days ago, if not for the interest in Mormonism.

As you know missionary9, the moderator is free to move the thread to the Religion section whenever they deem the topic to have switched primarily to religion. I am somewhat surprised they have not done so yet.

Perhaps it is because Mitt’s Mormonism seems to be very germane in this election cycle. Perhaps you don’t think it is appropriate nor necessary to discuss the topic, but many of us do.

I’m sorry your sensibilities have been challenged.

[Hi Heels]

Time’s up. *bbzzzzz* Perhaps it’s YOU who was never the Mormon..... “LOL”

[colorcountry]

cute.

[Hi Heels]

Answer?

[colorcountry]

Oh please, you first.

BTW, you spellied Doniphan wrong.

[Hi Heels]

So? Sure took you a long time to google it. And by the very fact that I know who he is, well, that kind of puts your accusation to rest, now doesn't it? That's right! ex-Mormon who does NOT hate Mormons. It's called American. One who believes in religious freedom.

I really like mission9's idea. So, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you a hand at keeping in line with the forum rules AND with the greatest commandment-

Perhaps you need assistance gaining the attention of those mentioned by mission9. Let me help you, sister.

"Mod? Jim? Please review this poster's many entries regarding Mormonism over the time she has been on the forum. We feel she may be, unintentionally of course, alluding to religious bigotry in the 7000+ anti-Mormon posts she has made in the last year and we certainly wouldn't want that to reflect badly on Free Republic or conservatives in general. Her obvious passion for this topic has, inadvertently, caused her to react in a manner she might find uncomfortable in retrospect. We all know this is certainly not the place for religious bigotry and hatred. We know that Free Republic is a forum to discuss politics, not a forum to spread religious hatred like infection on an open wound. It is her heartfelt wish that she respond with love and Christian faith at all times. Your input and direction is, as always, appreciated."

Shall I help you,sister? Would you like a hand up?

[colorcountry]

, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you a hand at keeping in line with the forum rules AND with the greatest commandment-

Perhaps you need assistance gaining the attention of those mentioned by mission9. Let me help you, sister.

"Mod? Jim? Please review this poster's many entries regarding Mormonism over the time she has been on the forum.

Feel free. Do you think I am ashamed. I don't hide my posts from Jim Robinson. He is the owner of this site, and is kind enough to put up with us.

Go ahead and tell. Try and silence me, you might even be successful. Speaking ones mind is a charished right in the US of A. You don't agree with me - - fine. Trying to silence me is fine....but doing so is not. You might even be successful here at FR, but you can't silence me, nor the 19-40% of Americans who will not vote for a Mormon. (references are included in post #179 in case you missed them.

[Colofornian]

All citizens should be free to follow their conscience in matters of religious faith.

Hey, "stop signs" and caution signs such as "Road out ahead" do not keep you from driving on. (They are mere warnings).

Freedom of religion includes the right to worship alone or with others, in public or private...

What? Colorcountry, are you barricading the doors at LDS stakes again?

...and to participate in religious observance, practice, and teaching without fear of persecution from government or other groups in society. (ooo. I liked that last sentence)'

Yeah, I'll betcha you did. (And I'm sure you've faxed it, e-mailed it, snail-mailed it, and hand-delivered it to all of the law enforcement officials who've cracked down upon the fundamentalist polygamous Mormons who are simply "practicing" and "participating in religious observances" and by your definition, must also apply under your application of being "persecuted" by the government for those practices. No? (I didn't you were consistent)

What's worse is that you lasso "freedom of speech" to somehow mean "No, you can't publicly object to any religious sentiment" (you did this when you wrote Freedom of religion includes...teaching without fear of persecution from...other groups in society) If you think publicly objecting to someone is tantamount to "persecution," boy are you sheltered. (I suggest you go find real persecution in other countries)

To defame and hate someone simply because of their faith is abominable. It's against the very nature of Christianity. There's enough hatred in the world.

Good. I've been waiting for more ex-Mormons to start condemning the following LDS scriptural passage. (And these words you wrote above apply directly to this passage, do they not?):

"My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, "History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6...elevated to LDS "Scripture" in Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-19)

[WOSG]

“It seems like the religious right is slowly warming up to Romney. Personally, I think they made a big mistake by waiting as long as they did to make that shift. It may be too late. I think Giuliani is close to having it wrapped up.”

Rudy can only wrap it up if he wins in NH.

It’s still a wide open race.

But you are right in one thing - conservative dithering and split decisions among them to pick Thompson, Huckabee, Romney and others has given Rudy the opening to win.

[colorcountry]

I don’t think freedom of religion was ever meant to impinge on free speech, and neither does the SCOTUS.

I do understand that the purpose of this site is not fundamentally religion....it is politics. Once again we see that the two subjects often collide.

[greyfoxx39]

When I left that revival meeting, I had been mildly entertained, but had not received any spiritual edification. The revival meeting was all about ramping up people’s emotions. As I reflected on my experience at that revival meeting, it caused me to think of the prophet Elijah’s experience on Mount Horeb as he hid from Jezebel. There was much commotion with the earthquake, rushing wind and fire, but the Lord was not present in them. It was the still small voice which the Lord used. And so it was with the revival meeting. There was a lot of commotion and frenzy with the loud, raucous music, the “Jesus” cheer and shouting, the crowd swaying and hand clapping, but no still small voice.

How sad that you were unable to open your heart to the Lord in that meeting, that you were sitting in judgement on believers who were praising His name with "joyful noise". It's no wonder that you were only "mildly entertained". How do you know that the Holy Ghost was not present there and inspiring with His message the act of chanting out Jesus' name? Do you believe the HG only whispers to those who seek him out in private?

I don't remember ever seeing any actual joy in any meeting in the mormon churches that I attended. Everything was said and done by rote, as though ticking off a list of chores to be done.

I have posted before the glorious experience I had at a Christian church at a Good Friday evening service. There were candles burning on the altar and at the podium, the Pastor and choir had donned their best robes, and the sanctuary was full to overflowing. There was a mantle over every one of us of closeness to Jesus there that night...The choir offered hymns of thankfulness for His sacrifice for us, and the Pastor gave us the story of the crucifixion while standing before the bare, naked wooden cross. At the end of the service he gave a prayer, and as the prayer ended all the lights in the sanctuary dimmed until total darkness claimed the scene...

Then, you could hear the shuffling of feet as they approached the cross, and unintelligible cries in another language..then silence...then.....BAM! BAM!.....BAM! BAM!...the sound of hammering on wood resounded through the silence...the sound of nails being driven into the cross...and a long silence...then, a few candles were lit, just enough to find with tear-dimmed eyes, your way to the aisle and out into the foyer, where we embraced each other and whispered "Good night" through our closed throats.

That is an experience you will never have in a mormon chapel....there will be no cross, and there will be no Good Friday service. There will be no flower-draped cross on Easter Sunday to celebrate His resurrection...Mormons disdain the presence of the cross.

Somehow, I feel you are missing much.