Thompson talks of daughter who died

Yahoo News / AP ^ | 10/22/2007 | LIBBY QUAID, Associated Press Writer

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

TAMPA, Fla. - Republican Fred Thompson sidestepped a question about the Terri Schiavo right-to-die case last month, saying he didn't remember the details. On Monday he said he's uncomfortable discussing it because of his own daughter's death.

snip

"And this will probably be the last time I ever address it."

snip

He added: "It should be decided by families. The federal government and the state government, too — except for the court system — ought to stay out of it, as far as I'm concerned."

[BykrBayb]

Show me where the law demands an innocent woman be put to death by starvation/dehydration without benefit of a jury, and I’ll show you where the law is wrong. The truth is, the law was not adhered to. If it had been, Terri would be alive today, and probably capable of even more than she was after years of illegal neglect. If this is important enough to you to push your opinion, then it’s important enough for you to know the facts. Read through the threads, and you’ll discover there were countless laws broken in pursuit of Terri’s death. Judge Greer even announced in court that the law was Terri would die, regardless of any evidence yet to be presented. Show me that law. There is no such law. The well documented fact that the laws were not enforced doesn’t mean we need more laws to ignore. If the laws on the books had been followed to the letter (as you claim you would want) then Terri would not have been killed. If the laws against starving and dehydrating people to death aren’t sufficient, what would you add to the new law to make it more binding than the old law? “We really, really mean it this time?”

[shhrubbery!]

Fred should talk to Terri’s parents. This is prolife just like abortion is, this is where the rubber meets the road.

I hope he will, and then publicly reverse himself on the grounds that he didn't fully understand Terri's situation.

If I ever get another fund-raising phone call for Fred (I've been ignoring their calls), this time I'll answer the phone and try to give his campaigners your suggestion.

[DelphiUser]

Yes, I have an analogy. During WWII, sometimes German soldiers would dress in the uniforms of our fallen soldiers and would look much like American soldiers. Now, because they looked American, were they American? If that sounds obvious, then the dressing of Bp. Lynch and his cronies in Catholic garb is about as ridiculous.
The Catholic Faith is still the Catholic Faith even if some goofballs claim otherwise. The Vatican made clear their position and have come down solidly, unequivocally on our side.
<
No amount of interpreting can scratch the wording as no amount of science or research can fracture the case of facts and evidence weighing against those complicit in her murder. Terri was killed by a psychopath with the cooperation of the system. I repeat. It is all clear and undisputed in the Terri Dailies. Nothing has been explained away. Evil is evil no matter how it is masked.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

I was not saying the Catholic church should be held in any way responsible for Terri's death. The facts are (IIRC)

1. Michael Schivo claimed to be a Catholic.
2. The Catholic church makes Divorce difficult at best to obtain (which in general I believe to be a good thing.)
3. Michael had been denied a marital relationship with his wife for years (due to her health, obviously)
4. Michael had a new girlfriend who wanted to get married.
5. Michael had the power to go to court (lie if necessary) and get Terri killed.

I'm just saying Michael chose the only option that would allow him to get married soon in the Catholic church. I am quite sure the policies in the Church never anticipated such a situation, and in general they are great conservative values, but in this extreme case, they put extra pressure on a schmuck of a man who then used the law (which had also never anticipated this circumstance) to end the life of his wife, apparently (for I do not know personally) against her will. Since he was not actually there, plunging a knife or pulling a trigger, the church holds him harmless in this and he gets to get married to his girlfriend.

This is a twisting of church rules, and I do not believe the Catholic church should have done anything differently; except maybe the Pope could have excommunicated Michael from the church for his part in this, but I do not know what the process is for something like that. JFTR, I am not Catholic, but I read somewhere that Michael was, so I am speaking on a church who's policies I do not claim to understand. If I am wrong, correct me please, but don't blame me for I am admitting up front that I don't know for sure what the policy is, 'K?

[DelphiUser]

Show me where the law demands an innocent woman be put to death by starvation / dehydration without benefit of a jury, and I’ll show you where the law is wrong.

If you are talking about a criminal case, you are absolutely correct, however, Terry was ruled to be in PVS, and Michael suddenly "Remembered" that she didn't want to be preserved in that state. (why only tell him and a witness who is dead, heck, I even broadcasted here that I don't want to be preserved indefinitely). But OK, now you have Michael going to court and saying it was her wish, and once that ball gets rolling, either:

A) He admits he was committing purgery (not likely)
B) The Court overturns spousal rights.
C) The Court weakens the right to decide you don't want to be kept alive by artificial means.
D) The court overturns the diagnosis which has been entered into the record of PVS.
E) The court rules to find that Michael may have his wife's feeding tube removed.

The court took E eventually, and From the video I saw the other day, it was a mistake, she was communicating with her dad.

The truth is, the law was not adhered to. If it had been, Terri would be alive today, and probably capable of even more than she was after years of illegal neglect.

You never know, the law is a tricky thing, I mean technically, the tax code being a graduated tax is not constitutional, but if you don't pay they still come and get you. (a legal structure known as "Words of art" are used to redefine common words with new meanings only used in the document they are defined in, I.E. the tax code."

If this is important enough to you to push your opinion, then it’s important enough for you to know the facts.

It's important to me because I have been in a situation where i did not want my life preserved artificially, and having thought it through, I don't want my right not to be receesutated to be taken away. Beyond that, Terri is dead, she is not coming back, I belive she is with God and happy. LEt's worry about how we keep this from happening again while not keeping people like myself from having the right to say "Stop keeping me alive now". People die, i hate to sound cold hearted, but it's part of life, and I believe it was designed that way. I do not believe they are gone, I do not belive they are unhappy about it, many especially if they have been sick for a long time, I believe, are relieved when they die and move forward to a future that cannot get ill, or infirm.

The problem in this discussion is that religion, emotions from past loses, and differing perspectives get jumbled to gather in a mass that defies reason and decorum. I try not to be rude, but either I speak things plainly enough for my meaning to get past all the preconceived notions, or I resign myself to not communicating at all. and either way, I offend someone.

Read through the threads, and you’ll discover there were countless laws broken in pursuit of Terri’s death. Judge Greer even announced in court that the law was Terri would die, regardless of any evidence yet to be presented. Show me that law.

Show me that one quote.

There is no such law. The well documented fact that the laws were not enforced doesn’t mean we need more laws to ignore. If the laws on the books had been followed to the letter (as you claim you would want) then Terri would not have been killed.

Great, that is what should have happened, it didn't, so how do we get the law to be followed in the future? Can it be made simpler? Can we impose fines on judges who break the law? (or better yet, get rid of those judges) What should we do?

If the laws against starving and dehydrating people to death aren’t sufficient, what would you add to the new law to make it more binding than the old law? “We really, really mean it this time?”

Law per se has become incomprehensible to man. There is no lawyer who is competent to administer "The Law", the specialize, they work in teams, bringing together the "Specialties" needed for that case. the "Law" should be simple enough to allow everyone to understand it, not just lawyers, and in pieces. Once the law is simple enough, it will be harder to break because everyone around you will know you broke the law.

Let's look at how God does it. "Thou shalt not kill." See? That's pretty simple, isn't it, and everybody gets it, and Terri would still be alive. How do we get to that state instead of a law that has exceptions for Babies that have not taken their first breath yet and allows responsive people to be classed as PVS?

Show me positive movement, yes, talk about terry, but talk about her in terms of what should be changed...

[BykrBayb]

That’s a lot of crap to throw in the air, hoping something will stick. Now, back to what we were talking about.

Many laws were broken in pursuit of killing Terri. They’re easy enough to find on these threads, if you actually are interested in the truth.

Judge Greer announced that no matter what evidence might come out, the law required that Terri must die. Address that issue, if you can. I don’t have the quote saved, but I believe Sun does. Hopefully she, or someone else, will provide it for you and any others who aren’t familiar with the case.

[BykrBayb]

Persistent Vegetative State is not only a medical diagnosis, but a legal determination. You are talking about the legal definition of PVS. The State of Florida provides a legal definition, which judges are required to adhere to. Judge Greer did not adhere to that definition. Every doctor who testified about Terri’s condition, stated that she had abilities beyond the requirements for a legal determination of PVS. Even the doctors hired by Michael to testify against Terri, described actions by Terri that negated any possible legal determination of PVS.

[BykrBayb]

It is illegal to deprive a person of food and water. Judge Greer did not merely order the withdrawal of food and water provided through a feeding tube. He ordered that Terri not be given food and water naturally. Not so much as an ice chip on her lips. He wouldn’t even allow her to receive the Last Rites. That was an illegal order. Bjs1779, do have that order handy?

[Sun]

1) Terri was not PVS. You don’t know what you’re talking about. What you did was believe the brainwashing that you heard repeatedly on your radio or tv.

Please get informed: TERRI’s ENTIRE STORY:

http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/article778D068936704893B94CCF7E3050713C.asp

2) Stop deflecting about the light. YOU SAW the video.

And why did you not see it before, and why did you not see more videos??

Here’s why:

If Terri’s parents showed videos that they had of Terri, they would not have been allowed to visit her.

Read this:

http://www.cnsnews.com/pdf/2003/bushnell.pdf

3) Terri’s family tried to get a divorce for Terri to save her from death, to no avail.

And the Catholic Church doesn’t allow adultry, but you say nothing about that.

4) You never answered me when I asked that you use your own common sense, and ask yourself WHY would a man sue for malpractice, and after he receives the malpractice dollars “remembers” that his wife would want to live like that?

[Sun]

When they attempted to starve Terri to death before, and Terri’s sibblings tried to have her fed orally, Florida’s Judge Greer said:

“I don’t want anyone trying to feed that girl.
The law of the case is that she is going to die.”

The feeding tube is just an excuse to MURDER Terri. She could swallow soft foods and liquids, and could swallow even better with THERAPY (Michael wouldn’t allow THERAPY).

[DelphiUser]

That’s a lot of crap to throw in the air, hoping something will stick. Now, back to what we were talking about.

I'm sorry, I was not aware that you controlled the flow of conversation on this thread.

You made a specific allegation that you repeat here and I quote "Judge Greer announced that no matter what evidence might come out, the law required that Terri must die." I asked for a reference to such an outrageous quotation, you don't have it. you really hope somebody does.

You said "Many laws were broken in pursuit of killing Terri. I wold think with that many eyes on the case, everyone would be as "By the book" as they can just to keep body parts out of wringers, again, I asked for a source, you give none.

Son, you may be older than me, but you are making me feel like I am talking to my kids, Common knowledge isn't common and it isn't knowledge, it's assumptions based on everybody agreeing that it's true. If I come in and you say X and I ask for a quotable source and you "Hope" someone else will help you out, you hope you are right, but you don't know.

You said and again, I quote "If this is important enough to you to push your opinion, then it’s important enough for you to know the facts." Facts Can be proven, you said I should know them, then tell me to go and do research on "The Threads" In post # 256 floriduh voter complained that I wanted him to "do a term paper" when I asked him to define the words "Culture of Death" and "Culture of Life" in post # 246

So I should go out and research what you want me to "on the threads" and you guys can't even be bothered to tell me what you mean by a term you keep throwing around?

And you speak of throwing crap!

Make up your mind(s), and decide, is documentation a good or a bad thing. If it is a Bad thing, prepare for no one to take you seriously, if it is a good thing, then put some time in, source your quotes, and be prepared to answer people's questions if you want to convince them. If you don't care if your points are valid or convincing then there are other forums...

[BykrBayb]

I told you where you could find the information that everyone but you knows about. I can’t be responsible for all the stupid and/or lazy people who don’t read the threads.

[DelphiUser]

Persistent Vegetative State is not only a medical diagnosis, but a legal determination. You are talking about the legal definition of PVS. The State of Florida provides a legal definition, which judges are required to adhere to.

100% agreement so far.

Judge Greer did not adhere to that definition.

Do you have a news paper quote, court record, etc that can be linked to to support this accusation against a sitting judge who had everything to lose by doing as you allege and worse yet, knew he was being watched? To break such an obviously checkable statute, in a high profile case would be remarkable in deed, surely you can give me more than your word that this highly improbable circumstance happened, right? (I am not saying it didn't, but if you guys feel so strongly about this, you should have stuff ready, I'm trying to help you out here.)

Every doctor who testified about Terri’s condition, stated that she had abilities beyond the requirements for a legal determination of PVS. Even the doctors hired by Michael to testify against Terri, described actions by Terri that negated any possible legal determination of PVS.

Great, then a simple link and quotation of the definition, coupled with a court transcript showing their testimony should be easy to find, document and thus your credibility when you allege improbable things will go up.

I am a Mormon, and as such face challenges here all the time. I care. I have answered many questions so many times that I decided that I should put the answers up in a reusable form here. Click on my name on any post, it takes you to my page. On my page, I have Quotations from the Catholic encyclopedia on line, my own churches web site, and suggested resources. One of you should compile such a page (if you really do care) You could have a clickable index like mine that takes people to the stands of current politicians on Terri and the issues presented by that case. You could have links to this astounding quotation you are all alluding to, and on this page which would be about the current election so it would get hits, you could subtly (or blatantly) push your proposal on a fix.

I really am trying to help you guys,and it does not take the long to build a web page like that, I would also suggest Personal Wiki page, I keep several, they help me keep my quotations straight, links to pictures, etc. I keep them by subject. Then when people ask you for a quote, you won't be hoping for someone else to have it, you will be the "Organized" one.

[BykrBayb]

Sun, thank you for providing the quote. Hopefully our visitors will take the time to read it. I don’t have a magic plunger to force the truth down their throats.

[DelphiUser]

It is illegal to deprive a person of food and water.

Then I have been treated illegally many times, once at Disneyland when I ran out of money (sorry, it's that sense of humor thing again.)

Judge Greer did not merely order the withdrawal of food and water provided through a feeding tube. He ordered that Terri not be given food and water naturally. Not so much as an ice chip on her lips.

I can kind of understand this since feeding her manually had been tried before, kind of.

He wouldn't even allow her to receive the Last Rites.

This makes absolutely no sense, and to me seems an unlikely order, do you have a reference?

That was an illegal order. Bjs1779, do have that order handy?

It most certainly would be, I hope you guys get your quotations in order, see the link I just gave in an earlier post, if this is as bad as you say it is, you need to have all this stuff waiting to present to people, when they are open to it, as I obviously am right now.

[bjs1779]

It most certainly would be, I hope you guys get your quotations in order, see the link I just gave in an earlier post, if this is as bad as you say it is, you need to have all this stuff waiting to present to people, when they are open to it, as I obviously am right now.

What do you want, the court order from Greer that she would not be fed by mouth?

[BykrBayb]

Try reading the court transcripts, like everyone else.

[DelphiUser]

1) Terri was not PVS. You don’t know what you’re talking about. What you did was believe the brainwashing that you heard repeatedly on your radio or tv.

Because

1. People like me like to believe that other people (like judges) are doing their jobs correctly.
2. The story seems improbable.
3. I was attacked personally by unreasonable people such as yourself when I stated my preference not to be kept alive Via extraordinary means.
4. I asked for and received no verifiable sources.

Please get informed: TERRI’s ENTIRE STORY

Done!

2) Stop deflecting about the light. YOU SAW the video.

Saw the video, and was impressed, no deletion, but curious.

I asked: And why did you not see it before, and why did you not see more videos??

Here’s why:

If Terri’s parents showed videos that they had of Terri, they would not have been allowed to visit her.

Read this

That looks fairly standard, even boiler plate once you get into a legal battle the lawyers kind of take over, been there...

3) Terri’s family tried to get a divorce for Terri to save her from death, to no avail.

I could have predicted that too.

And the Catholic Church doesn’t allow adultery, but you say nothing about that.

The original text in Post 266 Was:

"I also find it ironic that the catholic church played a role here, it was OK for him to have his wife's feeding tube removed, but not OK to get a divorce. So his choice was be celibate and lonely, commit adultery, kill his wife. Personally, I think he had the tube removed so he could remarry and still be in the good graces of the church."

So, I covered it.

4) You never answered me when I asked that you use your own common sense, and ask yourself WHY would a man sue for malpractice, and after he receives the malpractice dollars “remembers” that his wife would want to live like that?

I believe i did, but it cannot be a straight "money Damn the consequences" Thing, or he'd have taken the $1,000,000.00 offered to walk away as her guardian (it was in the first article you asked me to read, and I read at 1500 WPM with a 92% measured comprehension rate...)

There's a lot here that just does not add up to a whole number.

[DelphiUser]

I told you where you could find the information that everyone but you knows about. I can’t be responsible for all the stupid and/or lazy people who don’t read the threads.

Well, that's what you get for actually listening to people, I may be stupid (something I can't help, if indeed I am stupid), my posts here with links show that I am not lazy.

You are acting like a jerk and that is something you are in charge of.

Have a nice life wondering why people aren't talking to you, and you're not winning people over to your cause.

[DelphiUser]

Sun, thank you for providing the quote. Hopefully our visitors will take the time to read it. I don’t have a magic plunger to force the truth down their throats.

After your last post to me, I can think of a real good use for that plunger, but I'd get banned.

[bjs1779]

After your last post to me, I can think of a real good use for that plunger, but I'd get banned.

I thought you wanted to see where Greer ordered the no feeding order orally to Terri. I see you are not much interested in that now.