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To: Señor Zorro
Those tenants are the very reason I am not what people like you would consider a "Christian." I, for one, will actually listen to the words of Christ himself and not those of the Apostle Paul who never met the man and saw his supposed words in a "vision."
  1. The Bible is the inerrant, literal Word of God Then why so many versions of the same story, e.g. the Gospel?
  2. All humans are mired in sin before birth Apparently not Noah and Enoch, whom God labeled "blameless" and are from the same bloodline as all supposed sinners
  3. Ergo, all humans deserve nothing less than eternal damnation See previous premise, also note the Biblical Flood as an example of God's salvation pre-Jesus
  4. God, in His grace, provided a sacrifice for this sin in His Son (begotten, not made in the words of Constantine's creed) Jesus Christ who, being perfect in all things, was able to provide the perfect sacrifice No entity on Earth can be perfect in all things as the definition of "perfect" cannot be totally and concretely defined; however, he can be seen as an 'ideal'
  5. This sacrifice is a gift of God, come of grace, not works; no one is ever worthy...ever. See the previous premise
  6. Jesus is 100% man and 100% God No entity anywhere can be 200%
  7. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, crucified dead and buried, and on the third day he rose again Irrelevant to his teachings, but I'll grant it
  8. Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead. Those who have accepted the free gift of salvation will enter heaven and those who have not will be sentenced to eternal damnation "where there will be fire and gnashing of teeth" This view of salvation discards every moral and teaching that Jesus ever taught to his followers and disciples and renders all morality meaningless

170 posted on 10/13/2007 5:45:01 PM PDT by jmyrlefuller (The Associated Press: The most dangerous news organization in America.[TM])
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To: jmyrlefuller

You are a least correct in your assessment that you would not be considered a Christian, for you are not. You have created your own religion.


191 posted on 10/13/2007 5:59:01 PM PDT by Ferox
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To: jmyrlefuller
Then why so many versions of the same story, e.g. the Gospel?

Read the Gospels and you will see that each has a different emphasis. Likewise with Chronicles and Kings.

Apparently not Noah and Enoch, whom God labeled "blameless" and are from the same bloodline as all supposed sinners

Blameless and sinless are two different things. Read Genesis 9 and we see good ol' Noah get drunk on the first fruits of his vineyard. Salvation has been the same throughout human history. Even under the Mosaic law, it was not the Law that saved the Israelites, it was faith.

No entity on Earth can be perfect in all things as the definition of "perfect"

True enough, but in Jesus and his sacrifice we have something and someone who is divine and, therefore, perfect.

No entity anywhere can be 200%

No, but it can be two things simultaneously. This is a divine mystery, like the trinity, but it is key to the Christian faith. Jesus had to be man to die for man's sins, but he had to be God to be perfect.

Irrelevant to his teachings, but I'll grant it

To the contrary, each of those elements was key to Jesus's life and mission. Being born of the virgin fulfilled a prophecy (Isaiah 7:14) and was part of His claim to being the Messiah, being Crucified dead fulfilled others (The Suffering Servant of Isaiah, Psalm 22, etc.), and being raised from the dead is key to Jesus's claim to being God (after all, how could God be bound by death?).

This view of salvation discards every moral and teaching that Jesus ever taught to his followers and disciples and renders all morality meaningless

It does nothing of the sort. I cannot even begin to guess how you reach this conclusion. If it is because you cannot work your way to heaven (i.e. it isn't "good" people who go to heaven) then that was postulated anyway. We deserve nothing less than eternal damnation and there is nothing we can do about it, in order to be freed of this second death we MUST accept Jesus's sacrifice. The result of this acceptance is that a man's heart is fundamentally changed so that he wishes to do good. A regenerate heart cannot do all the good it wishes and an unregenerate heart cannot do the evil it wishes.

301 posted on 10/14/2007 8:56:43 PM PDT by Señor Zorro ("The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"--Qui-Gon Jinn)
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To: jmyrlefuller

“Jesus is 100% man and 100% God “

You know, this is one of the most interesting tenants, to me. If you (the royal you) believe that Jesus was a god or God, what was the point of his sacrifice? I mean, for a god or God to “die” on the cross would pretty much be meaningless — because he didn’t really die. A man could die, but not God. So according to this tenant, God did not sacrifice his only begotten son because his son was really a god too. Only if you believe that Jesus was human is there a sacrifice.


361 posted on 10/15/2007 11:27:29 AM PDT by Lee'sGhost (Crom! Non-Sequitur = Pee Wee Herman.)
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