Student advocates gun rights, gets suspended

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | 10-11-2007 | WorldNetDaily.com

[dbehsman]

A Christian church-affiliated university in St. Paul, Minn., has suspended a student after he raised questions about the campus ban on concealed weapons, and is ordering him to have a mental health evaluation before he can resume his education.

The Hamline University case involves student Troy Scheffler, who, after the Virginia Tech massacre where a student shot and killed nearly three dozen others, suggested the killing spree might have been stopped if students had been allowed to carry concealed weapons.

"Questioning administrators on controversial topics isn't going to be a threat even if the conversation involves guns," Robert Shibley, vice president of Foundation for Individual Rights in Education told WND.

Scheffler turned to FIRE for help after his brief exchange of e-mails was followed by an invitation from the university to meet to discuss his concerns, and then a letter notifying him of his suspension before he could even respond to the request for a meeting.

The e-mails, according to the university were "deemed to be threatening and thus an alleged violation of the Hamline University Judicial Code," although Shipley said it was hard to see where school managers perceived a threat.

"That simply isn't manifested in the e-mails," Shibley told WND.

He said Scheffler remains on suspension under orders to undergo a "Mental Health Evaluation," conducted by someone approved by the school. "The University reserves the right to stipulate a specialization or certification," the school letter to Scheffler said. "Based on the evaluation, the University may require you to commit to a treatment plan as a condition for continued enrollment. You will be responsible for any cost incurred by the evaluation and/or treatment."

[ButThreeLeftsDo]

I just sent the story link to a good friend who has a son attending Hamline. I’ll see if I can can get any better info....

[TXnMA]

"...A so called Conservative University..."

~~~~~~~~~~

According to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamline_University

Hamline has a total enrollment of approximately 4,000 students, including its College of Liberal Arts, School of Law, and Graduate Studies programs, and is affiliated with the [leftist,secularized] United Methodist Church. (Characterization mine...)

also.

July 2005 marked the arrival of Linda N. Hanson, the University's first female President.

That fact may have -- or may have not -- further biased the University's irrational stance on RKBA...

[magslinger]

I don't have any problem with folks having to apply for CC permits, nor do I have a problem with a background check, so long as it is done in a timely manner.

I agree it is probably an effective safety measure but I think we should forgo it because it gives both the governmental types and sheeple the impression that the government has the right to say who may or may not bear arms.

"Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

However, suspending this guy for merely voicing his opinion regarding firearms is beyond ridiculous, but unfortunately, it's something that I've come to expect out of academia.....

I try to not underestimate the evil that that left can perform, but they insist on exceeding my worst nightmares.

[tarheelswamprat]

The school DID have a choice, it could act as in a rational adult manner.

It did. It assessed its risks and took a risk-managed position.

With respect, FRiend, that argument simply doesn't hold water. If the student's emails contained anything genuinely "threatening" the school was obligated to refer the matter to law enforcement. The fact that they didn't, but chose to simply and arbitrarily punish the student because they didn't like his ideas, his "thought crime" if you will, indicate strongly that this matter is fundamentally a persecution based on ideological differences.

I realize you're not an American citizen, but these types of stalinist harrassment and persecution are simply unacceptable in any free society. The very concepts of "thought crimes" or "hate crimes" are anathema to freedom and individual rights. If the facts are as they have been presented in the article, this school administration needs to be slapped down, hard, because they have annointed themselves as "though police".

[JimRed]

Gee, doesn’t EVERYONE know that any one who talks favorably about gun rights is dangerous???

< /sarc >

[magslinger]

Gee, doesn’t EVERYONE know that any one who talks favorably about gun rights is dangerous???

Most people know that gun rights advocates are dangerous. To criminals and totalitarian governments, that is. That's why criminals and totalitarian governments are so willing to shut gun rights advocates up.

[valkyrieanne]

Uh, this is a private school, folks. Shouldn’t they be able to do whatever they like?

[Mr J]

Reminiscent of the Soviet Union labelling dissidents as mentally ill, thereby masking persecution as treatment.

[magslinger]

Absolutely! As long as they refuse direct government funding as my daughter's school does to keep their freedom to set their own standards.

If they do accept government funds, they have to follow government rules like freedom of expression, as so many formerly Christian schools have, losing their Christian character in the bargain.

[vetvetdoug]

Thanks for the information. It looks like a former conservative religious university that has been turned into a feminist rump ranger supporting liberal lefty socialist indoctrination camp. The actions of the administration toward the student is understood clearer considering the makeup of the administration.

[El Gato]

A so called Conservative University is anti-Second Amendment?

The article says "Christian Church Affiliated" not Conservative. As it happens, Hamline is affiliated with the United Methodist Church, long known for their stand against the RKBA and also in favor of about every socialist one-world policy to come down the pike. See

Social Justice Ministries link and the General Board of Church and Society Website in particular the Gun Control link which in turn links to the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, of which they are a member organization, and Handgun Control (The Brady Bunch).

They area also a member organization of the God Not Guns coalition

[El Gato]

I don't have any problem with folks having to apply for CC permits, nor do I have a problem with a background check, so long as it is done in a timely manner

"Shall not be infringed" means just that. Begging the government for permission to exercise a right is an infringement on that right. The background check is asking for permission to "keep" while the CHL permit process is getting permission to "bear". (But I've done both!)

[El Gato]

Based on what happened at VT, the University probably felt it had little choice. Dam’ned if they do, dam’ned if they don’t.

It's hardly the same thing. VT knew the kid was a nutter, and did nothing about it. This guy wasn't breaking any law, or violating any of their rules for that matter, he just was just expressing his opinion, poorly I admit. But the first amendment doesn't require one to be articulate. (Not that the first amendment applies to a private school.

Maybe he should sue for deprivation of civil rights and defamation of character. Oh and for return of not only this semester's tuition, but all the tuition he or or his parents have paid to the school. Then he should take his money somewhere that actually practices "academic freedom", if he can find such a place of course.

[El Gato]

I agree it is probably an effective safety measure

What you think those bent on killing someone, or even just robbing them, are deterred by background checks and CHL permits? Even the crazy ones are smarter than that. The only way to keep them from getting guns would be to eliminate all guns from places they could steal them, and also eliminate guns from being smuggled into the country. Even Great Britain couldn't manage that on a small island. We've got land two borders over a thousand miles long, along with even longer coastlines with bunches of little inlets and such where most anything from dope to small nukes can be landed.

[DieHard the Hunter]

> Maybe he should sue for deprivation of civil rights and defamation of character. Oh and for return of not only this semester’s tuition, but all the tuition he or or his parents have paid to the school. Then he should take his money somewhere that actually practices “academic freedom”, if he can find such a place of course.

Your points noted — like I said, “Dam’ned if they do.”

Their quandry would have been “Ok so what happens if this kid is a nutter and we have a VT thing happen. Or if not this kid, the next one because we’ll have set a precedent. Sued for millions and everyone will point fingers and say ‘you were warned’ and there goes the school’s reputation forever...”

Looks like they felt that the “Dam’ned if they don’t” option was less savory than the “Dam’ned if they do”.

It would have been a tough choice.

[vaudine]

"...poorly spoken.." LOL when I think of one of my professors who had a doctorate, but murdered the English language spoken word. Of course, he WAS in the education department. I majored in English/history, but took enough Ed. courses to get a teacher's cert..

Can someone tell me how these ivory tower types with a phd in political correctness can unfailingly slap down any hint of Christianity or 2d Amendment rights, but see nothing wrong with accomodating Muslims with special prayer rooms, footbaths, special menus, etc.? It is the world turned upside down.

If this is a private Univ. do they even get Fed. funds? I have been retired too long to keep up with these things.

vaudine

[El Gato]

Looks like I messed up a link. Here it is:

Social Justice Ministries Link

As a bonus link, they (United Methodist Church) are also a member of the anti-arms rights (and Peacenik) National Council of Churches

And be sure to catch the UMC's Palestine-Israel Justice Project

[El Gato]

I want to see the e-mails.

...

Does anyone have the full e-mails as sent?

First Email

Second email (Seems incomplete, but may just be missing the headers).

Found at Grad student suspended after pro-gun-rights e-mail @ news.com which in turn came from http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1909694/posts

[El Gato]

If this is a private Univ. do they even get Fed. funds?

Most likely. All sorts. Including the funds that the students get for tuition/books/housing, etc and give to the school. The School likely gets funds directly as well. Most do, a few choose not to.

[mathurine]

http://politechbot.com/2007/10/11/hamline-university-student/ talks about some sort of legal action.