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To: TheBattman
You have taken your quote from John 21 completely out of context.

Who are you to decide what the context of John 21 is? Peter tells us in 2 Peter 2:21 (exact chapter and verse not sure) that no scripture is of private interpretation--which is what you have done.

Since you now (apparently) embrace the beliefs of Protestant Christianity that denies current revelation, you cannot with any authority claim to interpret any scripture, because to do so (according to Peter) requires the spirit of revelation--which you deny exists.

No amount of rationalizing on your part can explain away your deficient understanding of the Bible, its completeness, or lack thereof. If you aren't aware of the many internal errors and contradictions in the Bible texts I won't waste my time explaining them to you. You need to do more study, both of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. There is no contradiction between the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

1,133 posted on 09/23/2007 5:57:48 PM PDT by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: Auntie Dem
Who are you to decide what the context of John 21 is? Peter tells us in 2 Peter 2:21 (exact chapter and verse not sure) that no scripture is of private interpretation--which is what you have done.

What???!!!! Do you even comprehend what "private interpretation" means? IN this particular case, it simply means that prophecy does not come out of one's personal desire to prophecy -

Context:

1 Peter 1:19-21 - 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

In other words, the prophecy didn't come by someone's imagination. This is meant as a qualification/testament of the accuracy of the scriptures. No scripture is the revelation of Man's mind, but of God.

Context is EVERYTHING (the old saying "text without context is a pretext" says a whole lot).

And to your assertion that there are no contradictions between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, try these on for size:

Moroni 8:8 vs. Psalm 51:5

Nephi 2:23-25 vs. Genesis 3:16-19; Romans 5:12; 8:20-21

Nephi 5:21 vs. Acts 17:26; Galations 3:28; James 2:1

2 Nephi 25:23; Moroni 10:32 vs. Ephesians 2:1,5 & 10;Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 11:6, etc.

Helaman 14:27 vs. Matthew 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44

Ether 1:34-45 vs. Genesis 11:1

And a few more oddities (I will admit they are not all my doing):

Alma 7:10 (Jesus born in Jerusalem?)

Alma 46:13,15 (First reference to Christians late 70's BC (ys, BC) vs. Acts 11:26 - dating closer to 40 AD.

And of course, many have done similar research (with much more time on their hands than I have) and have also found some major contradictions of the Book of Mormon with itself. See this page (I'm not in the mood to copy/paste tonight. I just finished a major 9 page exam.

http://www.bible.ca/mor-contradictions.htm

So I have given you some bones to chew on. I look forward to a well-studied and thought out reply. But please don't bring any stale "official church statements" to the table.

My concern is for the souls of the lost (those who do not know Jesus Christ as their personal Savior). Salvation is not of works - it is by Grace through Faith, and not of works.(Ephesians 2:8-9)

1,134 posted on 09/23/2007 6:56:45 PM PDT by TheBattman (I've got TWO QUESTIONS for you....)
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To: Auntie Dem; greyfoxx39
There is no contradiction between the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

"we are saved by grace AFTER all WE can do." (2 Nephi 25:23, Book of Mormon)

"For it is BY GRACE you HAVE BEEN SAVED, [past tense] through FAITH--AND this is NOT FROM YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT OF GOD--NOT BY WORKS, so that NO ONE CAN BOAST." [Word for "boast" there in the Greek has context of self-pride; as for "no one"--"no one" includes "me" and "no one" includes "you"] (Ephesians 2:8-9)

"For the wages [what we earn] of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23) [Just try having your kids start "earning" their gifts...give the gifts to them ONLY AFTER ALL THEY CAN DO to work them off]

"Then they asked him [Jesus], 'What must WE DO to do the works God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work OF GOD IS THIS: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.'" (John 6:28-29)

Does this just mean that God has to have enough "faith" in his own Son? Nope. The "believing" is for us--but even that is done due to God's work in us...even God gets the credit & glory for enabling faith. As Paul said: "No one can say that Jesus is Lord EXCEPT by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor. 12:3)

I beg of all of us: Stop trying to...

...amass brownie points,

...spiritual merit badges,

..."A" or "B" or "C" moral grades where we think somehow that God grades "on a curve" ("well, at least I'm not as bad as..."),

...self-spiritual healings,

...living a "spiritual" life DRIVEN by temple recommends & public reputations,

...and forever panting after some super-personal "worthiness"--often defined more by what we do than who we are (as if God didn't know our hearts, anyway; as if He didn't know the boomerang motivations for some-of-our-acts...motivations meant to earn a "higher" eventual kingdom status or placement).

God doesn't grade on a "curve." He didn't say most would be saved. If fact, Jesus said just the opposite: "Wide is the road that leads to DESTRUCTION, narrow is the way that leads to life." (I'm sorry to inform you but "Destruction" IS NOT a degree of "salvation", and "SalvationLand" is not found in "telestial" and "terestial" and "territorial" and "turftorial" kingdoms--"turftorial" is the land of NFL idols, for those who didn't know).

1,210 posted on 09/25/2007 7:58:43 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Auntie Dem; TheBattman
Since you now (apparently) embrace the beliefs of Protestant Christianity that denies current revelation...

Allow me to clarify that many, many, many Christians DO believe that current revelation is still with us. (But you need, in part, at least to start with the best definition of the Ultimate Revelation).

And if you don't at least start with these two verses as to what is Vital Revelation, then the discussion will veer off to a rabbit trail.

"I am the Way, and the TRUTH, and the Life." (John 14:6)

Jesus IS the Living Truth, the Living Reality, The Living Revelation.

Hebrews 1:1-2: "In the PAST God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times an in various ways, BUT in these LAST DAYS he has spoken to us by his Son..." (Now are we in the last/latter days according to Hebrews 1 or not?)

If so, whose the ONLY divine spokesperson offered up here? (Joe? Brig?) Our Living Prophet to Heb. 1:1-2 is Jesus (and if you missed the part about Him being "alive" may I suggest you read the gospels)

Finally, why did Joseph Smith disobey the closing words of the book of Revelation?: "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book." (Rev. 22:18)

Now, I don't like others apply Rev. 22:18 to the entire Bible or New Testament. I apply it only to the book of Revelation. So why did Joseph add "dozens" of words to that book in his so-called "translation" of the book of Revelation in the JST?

1,212 posted on 09/25/2007 8:09:45 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Auntie Dem; greyfoxx39
If you aren't aware of the many internal errors and contradictions in the Bible texts I won't waste my time explaining them to you. You need to do more study, both of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. There is no contradiction between the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

Sorry... bad logic.

IF the Bible is so full of 'errors and contradictions', then there CANNOT be a lack of contradictions between the bible and the BoM.

You can't have your assumptions both ways.

(You'll have to study some logic yourself, as I cannot waste my time explaining it to you.)

1,216 posted on 09/25/2007 8:46:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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