Posted on 09/09/2007 7:53:44 AM PDT by grundle
For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought that salt water couldn't be burned.
So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt water with the radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some thought it a was a hoax.
John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to desalinate seawater with a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it caused a flash in the test tube.
Within days, he had the salt water in the test tube burning like a candle, as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.
His discovery has spawned scientific interest in using the world's most abundant substance as clean fuel, among other uses.
Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a demonstration last week at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State College, to confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
"It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum, don't be fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite appearances. The radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the constituents of salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and releases the hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to the RF energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent source measured the flame's temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit, reflecting an enormous energy output.
As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research Laboratory and expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius' discovery represents "the most remarkable in water science in 100 years."
But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF generator uses vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
(Excerpt) Read more at post-gazette.com ...
Thanks for the post. As I said, it strikes me as a combination of cynicism and having to prove your the smartest kid in the class. Sort of like Al Gore ;-)
Agreed!
Smallest hotplate I’ve ever seen is 1500 watts. You use it to heat the container, which in turn heats the water. Microwave puts most of the heat directly into the water. That makes it more efficient twice. (not two times as efficient, but two modes of efficiency.)
> Whether it translates into a wonderful new energy
> source was not the point of my posts.
But that was the point of the original, typically
incompetent legacy media report.
I agree there may be something scientifically
interesting here. I doubt there is any free lunch
energy-wise.
Also, unlike traditional electrolysis, this process
seems to release both gasses at the same point; a
dangerous mix that may not be trivial to separate
into containers of H2 and O2 (without even more
energy to liquify them).
Only because it IS a hoax. A variation on perpetual motion of the first kind.
I love the joy of discovery, myself. I worked in R&D for forty years, six of them directly related to hydrogen energy. I want as much as anyone for breakthroughs to happen. But things like this that are so full of holes defame and do a disservice to genuine advances. Here is just one example:
an independent source measured the flame's temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit, reflecting an enormous energy output.
TEMPERATURE is not HEAT Energy. This is a frequent pitfall for novice energy inventors, even sincere ones! A reviewer reading a publication at this point would throw up their hands.
Whenever there is a ferocious demand for something, Bad Reasoning appears, whether it is Energy issues, Ethanol/Gasoline mixtures, The Internet Bubble, Vitamin megadoses,"Climate Change" etc..
Yes, I do jump on these, because people may invest in them with tragic results, or pin hopes on them that disappoint, at the least. I believe it to be an ethical matter. I should not CARE any more, I suppose, because I did retire last year, but the real cynicism is not in people who respond to these shrouded opportunities, but is instead comitted by people who try to capitalize on the failure of Science Education in order to extract money. That is cynicism in a cold-blooded form.
Hey, you just made me put down my coffee and go to the kitchen and read labels!
The Microwave is 3,850 Watts, and the hot plate is 1200.
Now I am going to have to microwave my coffee...
Have you been to the lab and check out this divice?
That's not the process being described here.
No.
We will all get to check it out when it appears in a peer-reviewed publication.
Have you been to the lab to check out the divice?
Okay, then on what basis are you saying it can’t possibly work?
Fodder for Coast to Coast AM.
Well it can't, can it? I mean, if it worked somebody would have already discovered it, right? So if this guy claims to have discovered it now, then he couldn't have, because somebody else would have already, and we know they didn't. So clearly it's a hoax.
In point of fact, it sounds like the guy may have come up with a neat trick. Whether it's a useful trick remains to be seen.
In 1507 anyone trying to develop electricity would have been called a fool. For hundreds of years, people saying that would have appeared to be right.
One day someone will make a simple discovery that will turn what we think today on it’s head too.
So what you’re basicly saying is that nobody should work in this field any longer. They should abandon it because every possible thing has been tried and no future discoveries could possibly occcur.
Doesn’t that sound a little strange even to you?
This is still old tech looking for a home. It works if you need a moped to travel with and have a 2000 sq ft tank in your yard for storage. Besides, what if the microwaves start cooking your brain and causing tumors the size of basketballs?
This has been done already with a house in NJ, I think. The guy spent $500K for equipment and stores the H2 in tanks in his yard. He fuels his home, his cars, and a boat from the H2. H uses a H2 generator that plugs into the grid, but gets help from panels on his roof. Of course there is battery storage also. It is supposed to be net positive, but the sun don't shine every day. How long is it going to take to pay for the $half mill initial investment? What about hail storms taking out the roof panels? What about the explosion hazard in his yard?
I can't find the best pics of his house, but here a start to "Google" his name.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0315/p12s01-sten.html?page=1
Page 3 shows the tanks that make the neighbors nervous.
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