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A frustrating evening (the debate)
Powerline ^ | 9/6/07 | Paul Mirengoff

Posted on 09/06/2007 9:21:16 AM PDT by pissant

I found the debate frustrating. Neither of the top tier candidates -- Giuliani and Romney -- had a good night. Giuliani took a big hit early over his 1994 statement welcoming illegal immigrants to New York. Thereafter, he seemed to answer most questions by referring to New York city crime statistics. He needs to diversify

Romney seemed defensive and, at times, evasive. His answers on Iraq were rambling. When the deputy sheriff in the restaurant called him out for not articulating an "end game" strategy, Romney was unable, I thought, to take advantage of the opportunity.

McCain did pretty well. At a minimum, as always, he answered the questions. I can conceive of him having a "surge" in New Hampshire as the "straight talk" candidate, particularly if Giuliani and Romney don't step it up.

Huckabee had another decent night, and I give points to anyone who takes on Ron Paul. But (as Romney pointed out) the "broken pottery" analogy in Iraq misses the most important reason for why we need to keep fighting -- namely the implications of the outcome on the war against terror. Huckabee also totally ducked the final question concerning what we should do if Iran continues on its present course towards becoming a nuclear power.

Duncan Hunter was, once again, the best of the rest.

Sam Brownback continues to be a huge disappointment. If the best he can do is channel Tom Friedman, it's clearly time for him to withdraw.

UPDATE: For what it's worth, Fox's focus group agreed with me that McCain did better than the two front-runners, and that Rudy talked too much about New York.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: duncanhunter; gopdebate
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To: Constitutions Grandchild

I think he would if FRed asked him, I know they’re tight. Don’t know about anyone else. Principled is a very good description of him.

I think,as VP, he could be the one to help solve, IMO, our biggest social problem. It would also give us a very good chance of keepin’ the White House for 16 years. And, as a side benefit, would break down some long standing walls within the Black communities.


101 posted on 09/06/2007 11:13:15 AM PDT by papasmurf (I'm for Free, Fair, and Open trade. America needs to stand by it's true FRiend. Israel.)
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To: pillut48

Last time I checked, they can’t take away your M.D. degree, board certification, fellowship degree, license to practice for being passionate about politics. The ONLY thing I give Ron Paul credit for is his stand on getting a declaration of war out of the Congress. Should have been done in Viet Nam and should have been done both times in Iraq.

Given the current state of fear, mistrust and revenge prevailing in Congress which prevents them from getting anything done, I don’t see how they could manage to act in unison on anything beyond a bathroom break — and that’s up for debate, too.


102 posted on 09/06/2007 11:16:08 AM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: papasmurf
I agree with your suggestion. I just don’t have faith that black America would support him. I don’t think they care about principled men of character anymore. It’s about so many other things I can’t even bear to speak of nowadays. Mostly, I’m just stunned at their perception of the world they think we’ve created for them. It justifies not being principled and having character to them. I want to cry — just weep uncontrollably when I listen — and I listen a lot.
103 posted on 09/06/2007 11:19:54 AM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: Constitutions Grandchild
I am still convinced it's a two man race: Thompson and Rudy.

The primaries will show that Rudy is FAR more formidable than the support he receives here on FR. I think he will take the entire west coast, Northeast...half or more the mountain west and some of the mid-west in the primaries.

Thompson will be the solid winner in the South...and will take the remaining states east of the Mississippi.

VERY CLOSE contest.

104 posted on 09/06/2007 11:22:06 AM PDT by Mariner
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To: Constitutions Grandchild
We did get a declaration of war, Paul just doesn’t like that the words ‘authorization of the use of force’ was used instead of war. Paul doesn’t believe in the existence of a thesaurus. Even if, by some odd chance, that Paul is right and the word War is necessary based on the specific word war being used in Article 1, Section 8, Subsection 12, he is completely ignoring Article 1, Section 8, Subsection 10 which authorizes Congress to define and punish offenses against the laws of nations. The Iraq war could also easily fall under that without having to go to Subsection 12 and the rules of wording that Paul reads into it.
105 posted on 09/06/2007 11:26:40 AM PDT by mnehring (Ron Paul is a FRAUD- No ifs, ands, or buts about it)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
You would think so, wouldn't you? But a liberal judge in Kansas recently ruled that although it is illegal for them to enter the country, it is not necessarily illegal for them to be here. With judges like that, why even have laws?

The judges (it was an appellate panel) were absolutely correct. Congress has passed a law making it a crime to enter the country illegally. Congress has also passed a law making it a crime for anyone who was ever previously deported to "be found in" the country. Congress has never passed a law making it illegal for anyone to be in the country if they were never previously deported.

The fact is that if someone was never previously deported, and they entered the country legally (for example, on a tourist or student visa), but they are now here illegally (they overstayed their visa), they can be civilly deported but they have committed no crime.

If you think that's stupid, write to your congressman and ask him to change the law. But judges should not be in the business of convicting people of violating laws that Congress never passed.

106 posted on 09/06/2007 11:26:50 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: KJC1
No “fweelings” the evidence was there for all to see if they had an open mind. All the experts (according to Senator Lugar) who appeared before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee testified Iraq would break into its three parts if we invaded. The implications of such a breakup were obvious for all to see - Iran loses its biggest regional adversary, the Kurds make the Turks more than a little uncomfortable and the Iranians take a giant step towards realizing their dream of a Shia Crescent. Add in nuclear proliferation and the fact that an advanced country (suspension bridges, oil pipelines and pumping stations) is a terrorist’s dream. When all is said and done it’s hard to imagine anyone overlooking all the obvious problems.
107 posted on 09/06/2007 11:31:37 AM PDT by caltrop
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To: Mariner
Oh, dear. That’s a ticket I hadn’t thought of. I’m somewhat soured on Guiliani because of current rumors he’s still a rolling stone with regard to his personal life. I just don’t want another Clintonesque scenario in the White House again. I’m old-fashioned, I know. I came out of the womb that way, can’t help it.

I’m also honor-bound as a card-carrying member of the Catholic Church not to vote for him (unless the alternative is worse — they always give you those loop-holes in the Church), so I guess my word stands — I’ll vote for anyone who isn’t Clinton, Edwards or Obama. ;-)

108 posted on 09/06/2007 11:32:40 AM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: mnehrling

I bow to your overwhelming knowledge of the War Powers act. I readily admit weakness in that area. “Use of Force” works for me.


109 posted on 09/06/2007 11:34:56 AM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: caltrop
"that those selling the invasion were only too happy "

To fire all top level generals that disagreed with them.

110 posted on 09/06/2007 11:36:30 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: Constitutions Grandchild

Never bow, question everything, including me... its the only way to grow.


111 posted on 09/06/2007 11:36:31 AM PDT by mnehring (Ron Paul is a FRAUD- No ifs, ands, or buts about it)
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To: caltrop
You're moving the goalposts here. You said this earlier:

Just because Adelman’s the only one we can recall saying it doesn’t mean he’s the only one who used the term “cakewalk”.

Even though you have NO PROOF, you are willing to suspend reality because it's what you want to believe. Do you really think this is an honest way to approach things?

Before moving into new terrain, let's settle this matter first.

112 posted on 09/06/2007 11:46:29 AM PDT by KJC1 ("I'm the anti-war candidate"--Ron Paul 9/05/07)
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To: KJC1

No, I’m not. There may have been others who used the term cakewalk. Note that I’m not saying there were, merely that he might not have been the only one.


113 posted on 09/06/2007 11:52:08 AM PDT by caltrop
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To: Constitutions Grandchild
I do understand how you feel. I have felt that way, myself, at times. But, allowng myself to ignore those feelings, and really paying attention to what was actually happening, and listening to the words being spoken, I found just the opposite is actually true, in most cases.

People are a product of their culture, and Black culture has undergone several radical changes in the last 30 years. Most of it driven by divisive forces...such as the al sharptons, and jesse jacksons of the world. Blacks, in general, “felt” they were being used, and turned to rap stars, and sports celebrities, not being able to shake that feeling that, no matter what, they aren’t as good or as equal as whites. Or, at least, that's what they believe we think.

Did WE do that? Did their so called civil rights leaders do that? Is it even a reality?

Doesn’t matter. It exists, even if only in their communities. (Thank you so much al and jesse and self loathing whites like bill crinton, et al) Now WE have to deal with it, but deal with it differently than we have in the past. Placating actions, such as throwing money, making racists laws, and white deprecating admissions of guilt only serve to bolster and legitimize stereotypical allegations of hate, prejudice, and inequality.

This is an issue, I think, only a Black person can address, and be taken seriously. In the eyes of those that feel this way, we have no credibility. JC Watts is the best qualified man to do that.

Racism has torn our Country apart, and it's contagious. Seriously, we can't keep ignoring it, it has to be addressed.

114 posted on 09/06/2007 11:57:27 AM PDT by papasmurf (I'm for Free, Fair, and Open trade. America needs to stand by it's true FRiend. Israel.)
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To: mnehrling
“...Paul just doesn’t like that the words ‘authorization of the use of force’ was used instead of war.”

I just had one of those wandering free-associative thoughts about that. Maybe Sen. Paul thought “use of force,” means using forceps. When he found out it meant bullets and bombs, he started splitting hairs. Just a thought...

115 posted on 09/06/2007 11:59:06 AM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: Constitutions Grandchild
The funny thing is he has no problem with the same terms used for Afghanistan.. it just goes to show that the ‘declaration of war’ is just another excuse to oppose the war, not a real reason.
116 posted on 09/06/2007 12:08:29 PM PDT by mnehring (Ron Paul is a FRAUD- No ifs, ands, or buts about it)
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To: caltrop
No, I’m not. There may have been others who used the term cakewalk. Note that I’m not saying there were, merely that he might not have been the only one.

And there may be cheese somewhere on the moon. Hey, could happen, right?

The FACT is that only ONE person (Adelman) is quoted as using that phrase, a person the vast majority of the country has never even heard of, yet that phrase has been widely attributed to the Bush Admin by leftie kooks and now a "Republican" presidential candidate.

Shoddy and lazy at best; malicious and dishonest at worst.

117 posted on 09/06/2007 12:08:40 PM PDT by KJC1 ("I'm the anti-war candidate"--Ron Paul 9/05/07)
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To: papasmurf
I sacrificed everything for my belief that we are all equal in the eyes of God, including my only child. I was so proud of him. He believed me when I spoke of content of character. He believed me when I told him to hold out the hand of friendship and peace. I told him stories (from the mouths of my own family) of wonderful people, and he never saw it coming. What I didn’t tell him was, times have changed. What I didn’t tell him is that ignorance and hatred have replaced those long-suffering, saintly virtues.

He loved and was beloved...and betrayed. It’s hard to see beyond that now, but deep down, I still believe...and hope.

118 posted on 09/06/2007 12:09:58 PM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: mnehrling
When I saw a map of the middle east, complete with installations of American troops, that one of the brilliant FReepers posted a while back, I understood immediately why we went into Iraq. I have never questioned our being there again. I may be incredibly disappointed that Busch was not able to articulate (whether for security reasons or lack of skill) why we were there to the American people, but I have never, since that day, failed to appreciate his courage to make the apple-pie circle complete. (Can you tell, I was an elementary school teacher once upon a time? ;-))
119 posted on 09/06/2007 12:16:45 PM PDT by Constitutions Grandchild
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To: KJC1
That fact that you haven't heard of Adelman doesn't (pardon me) establish anything in my mind. Those of us who pay attention have.

Don't forget that, prior to my recalling that Adelman had used the term "cakewalk" you were, IIRC, arguing that nobody in the administration had been. I won't accuse you of dishonesty, just (excusable) ignorance. The architects of our involvement in Iraq don't have that excuse. They should have known better. Plenty of us, including me, tried to make it clear but nobody wanted to hear it. That's dishonest and it cost us American lives, a trillion (or two) dollars, our standing in the world and has made us weaker and more vulnerable. Argue that if you'd like but the facts are against you.

120 posted on 09/06/2007 12:37:14 PM PDT by caltrop
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