Chavez vows revenge for Falklands war

The Sunday Times Online (UK) ^ | September 2, 2007 | Martin Arostegui

[Jeff Head]

In a new outburst of antiwestern sabre-rattling, President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela has threatened Britain with “revenge” for the Falklands war of 1982. The belligerent Latin American leftist warned last week that his recent build-up of sophisticated Russian and Iranian weapons would be used to destroy the British fleet if it attempted to return to the South Atlantic.

Speaking on his weekly television show Alo Presidente (Hello, Mr President), Chavez denounced what he described as Britain’s “illegal occupation” of the Falklands and repeated his call for a regional military alliance against Britain and the United States.

“If we had been united in the last war, we could have stopped the old empire,” Chavez said, as he gesticulated to maps showing how Venezuelan aircraft and submarines would intercept British warships. “Today we could sink the British fleet.”

Chavez has often expressed support for Argentina’s claim to the Falklands, but his latest broadside was notable for both its antiBritish vitriol and its unprecedented threats. He declared that British history was “stained with the blood of South America’s indigenous people” and demanded revenge for the “cowardly” sinking of the General Belgrano, the Argentine cruiser.

Western diplomats have long grown used to harangues from Chavez, who announced this weekend that he would negotiate with guerrillas holding dozens of hostages in Colombia, including three US contractors and Ingrid Betancourt, a French-Colombian abducted as she campaigned for president in 2002. But US and British officials have recently become more concerned by his willingness to lavish billions of dollars from Venezuela’s soaring oil income on military capabilities.

[Mr. Silverback]

I think the farthest south the British got was Belize back in their Colonial days.

British Guyana actually shares a border with Venezuela...but Hugo is still full of crap.

[JasonC]

Now draw a 1600 kilometer radius circle centered on the northeast edge of Venezuela. That is the combat radius of a late model Su-30 fighter bomber, which Venezuela just ordered from Russia (24), without air refueling.

Venezuela also reported seeking quiet Russian diesel-electric submarines, the Amur which is an improved version of the Kilo class. Some reports say only 3, others say 5, others say 9. These are apparently still at the planning stage, but they have the money and are negotiating terms with the Russians.

I leave it to your imagination what on green earth Venezuela needs a fleet of attack subs for...

[Jeff Head]

Sorry, no...the British have three Invincible class Carriers. The Invincible has been mothballed but the other two, Illustrious and Ark Royal, will be held until the two new carriers come on line. The Ocean and two Albions amphibious assault ships are new and are not the ones being cut. As to the frigates and destroyers, what I listed are all what are in operation now.

Go to the Royal Navy site and see for yourself.

As to the Darings, I simply mentioned that two had already been floated and one is in sea trials. That is a fact. How many they end up with is still in question, but I bet it will be at least eight if not more.

Right now, and for the next couple of years, the UK could deploy exactly the task force I described if they wanted to.

[JasonC]

Because he is a bombastic insecure racist dictator who feels inferior to everyone in the first world, and thinks he can vindicate his manhood by adopting all the policies of their enemies and sticking his finger in their eyes, and getting away with it. It makes him feel all manly. It is that simple and that stupid, and he will take it absolutely all the way. He will happily start wars that kill tens of thousands of people trying to prove his pecker is long enough.

[Niteflyr]

And Khaddaffi's playing nice-nice these days...all because we showed strength in the 80s and in Iraq.

Haven't we learned these idiots never go away they just get worse over time? The more we sit back and do nothing the more we embolden them...Muammar al-Gaddafi (I think that's correct) is a perfect example of what happens when you nip these guys in the bud.....

[353FMG]

That’s why our two sons (degreed engineers) are quietly working on their emigration papers for Australia.

[Jeff Head]

That route does pass Venezuela to the east. The new Venesuelan aircraft have the range to interdict that line of travel.

[Niteflyr]

I leave it to your imagination what on green earth Venezuela needs a fleet of attack subs for...

That's a good question...

[Liberty Valance]

*ping*

[Bender2]

Re: That route does pass Venezuela to the east.

What are you drinking? It must be wood alcohol as you must be blind! Do I believe you or the world map I have been looking at the past 60 years?

[TrueKnightGalahad]

I think his geography teacher was Miss South Carolina....

“I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uhmmm, some people out there in our nation don’t have maps and uh, I believe that our, I, education like such as, uh, South Africa, and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, uhhh, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, should help South Africa, it should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, for us.”

[Bender2]

Re: The new Venesuelan aircraft have the range to interdict that line of travel.

The Su-30MK2 Hugo ordered have a range: 3,000 km (1,620 nm) and if you would look at the same map I am (Or any other map of the world!), that UK Route to Ascension Island and then on to the Falklands is at least some 2,700 miles from the farthest east point of Venezuela...

Look, I enjoy your posts and for the most point we share agreement on Hugo and world events BUT you are dead wrong here and I cannot for the life of me understand why you will not admit it when presented with a map anyone can read?

[Bender2]

Read my post 192, your 1,600 km circle does not cross the UK route to Ascension Island...

Gad! Didn't anyone here ever take geography or learn to read a map?

[tanknetter]

Sorry, no...the British have three Invincible class Carriers. The Invincible has been mothballed but the other two ...

Invincible has been stricken, is being retained as a source of spares for Lusty and Ark Royal. She's apparently in pretty bad shape - she has a lightweight hull, although not nearly as lightweight as Ocean - and isn't even considered a candidate for transfer to a foreign navy (Hermes still operates with the Indian Navy, and I think Australia - which was supposed to buy her right before the Falklands - desperately wants a carrier).

There's still the issue with organic air cover. The Marines recently operated a det of AV-8Bs from Lusty (I think it was Lusty). While part of the Marine Harrier force has the APG-65 installed, they haven't integrated AIM-120 yet ... but the Italians have. Theoretically the US could do a lend-lease deal on some of its AV-8Bs. But that would only take care of the hardware side of the equation - could the RN/RAF get it's pilots back up to speed with counter-air fast enough?

One historical reminder ... the Argies went for the Falklands shortly after the RN announced that it was going to downsize its forces (Invincible going to Australia, for instance) because they saw it as a sign of weakness and a possible window of opportunity (also, it is widely assumed that the Argies would never have even tried to make a play for the islands had the RN retained the old Ark Royal with her Phantoms and Buccs). The fact that the Brits no longer have air cover flying from their CVLs is pretty significant, and well-known. With the CVFs at least five years away if someone wants to make a play for the islands the next few years is a great time to do it.

[Bender2]

Re: Miss South Carolina... Caitlin Upton...

True, I hare to say it, but I must tell the truth... She could probably talk me into believing the shortest 'straight line' course from the UK to the Falklands crossed Venezuela!

At least... until the next morning!

[Jeff Head]

You guys are clearly not fathoming the goegraphic situation here. The path from England to the Falklands passes Venezuela to the east. No where did I say it crossed over Venezuela. It happens to come close enough to Venezuela for the new SU-30s that Venezuela has purchased to interdict that path and keep the Brits from safely traveling down there along that path.

If you cannot graps that, I am sorry, but that has been the point of the discussion from the beginning and no amount of insults or ignorance regarding those facts will change them.

[uncbob]

JFK chickening out at the Bay of Pigs started all these problems in that part of the Americas

[free_life]

The big US, Canada etc navel exercise down there should pay him a visit.

[lookihaveaswordinmybelly]

“I understand from some Venezuelan friends that Chavez uses the old Castro tactic of sleeping in a different place every night. Paranoid as hell.”

I would like to know however....did Stalin sleep in a different place every night? Or did he just frighten the crap outta everyone enough to discourage that?

[Candor7]

US help for Britain in protecting British interests in the Falklands, and in the Carribean from Chavez is not a sure thing, after Brown has pulled British forces out of Iraq.

The US in the last Falklands engagement merely shared intel.Today the USA would likely just watch, knod and wink, unless another Tony Blair was in office.

Gordon Brown is a myopic, strategic idiot.